Split Thread What does "MIHOP" mean?

[uke2se]

I haven't applied any limits. We have already discussed this. In fact I have stated...


Feel free to add as many different "whos" as you please to the list. You don't need my permission.


I don't. I can highlight that "it" is subjective and can refer to another long list of different things. You are free to add as many items to that list as you please. You don't need my permission.


Sure.


Sure.

That's the point. "It" can be many different things.


If left unqualified it can be ambiguous, sure.
That ambiguity can be removed by qualifying intent.

Then when you say "I'm MIHOP" you're actually not saying anything, as your definition of MIHOP would have it mean whatever you want it to mean as long as you don't give it any qualifiers. Thus, you were actually being less than honest when you said to a truther "I'm MIHOP", letting him believe that you were using the standard meaning of the acronym - that the USG Made It Happen On Purpose.

As long as we're being clear.

 

[000063]

I like how the sentence fragments femr is quote mining become shorter and shorter, as do his responses to them.

The article questions the meaning of the acronym including and even beyond the inherent variable meaning I have highlighted.

It seems to discuss who did it and who was involved. It does not discuss the acronym MIHOP, nor question its meaning. I will gladly admit I am wrong if you could provide a page number for where the acronym is discussed. I'm not sure where the sections you're quoting come from, unless you're quoting yourself to lend support to your arguments.

Baseless name-calling. This thread asks "what does MIHOP mean".

Calling you an "incorrect pedant" is name calling? Report it to the mods, let them decide.

The correct answer is...

The acronym can mean almost anything depending on what the user wants them to mean when left unqualified.

Yes, and so can "an elephant". But if I started talking about my sharpener I call "an elephant", people would rightly be confused.

It does NOT mean only "da gubmint did it".

As far as the overwhelming majority of people who use the term are concerned, it does. What it "can" mean is not the same as what it is actually used for, which is what determines meaning in language. Your attempt to conflate potential with reality is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Disbelief]

No.

Can't even quote mine correctly.

Incorrect.

So, what is your rationale for purposely using a term that will be misunderstood?

 

[000063]

ROFL.

Inclusion of the additional text does not change the fact that even you accept usage other than what you call "common" as long as...
"the person using them in a non-standard manner explain their usage of the term, or be responsible for the confusion that follows.".

When I've written the acronym M.I.H.O.P. I am not attributing any particular "who", "what" or "how".

Have a nice day.

Except that you never made such an explanation, or admitted to using it in a non-standard manner. You acted as if you already were using it in the standard manner, and when called on it, switched to this "possible meaning" bull pucky. I never said I'd accept the alternate definition, just that it should be explained, like Elephant the Pencil Sharpener.

Also, it's nice that you're finally admitting that the standard usage is the one I defined. (Much simplied: "The USG committed the attacks.")

And, as uke2se has pointed out repeatedly, and you have repeatedly ignored, a "Made It Happen On Purpose" without any "who", "what"(IE: the "It"), or "how"(IE: "On Purpose") is a meaningless term. All you have left is "Made Happen", which is so ambiguous as to be useless for purposes of discussion. And since the "what" is undefined, the "Happen" doesn't refer to anything, merely leaving "Made".

 

[femr2]

Then when you say "I'm MIHOP" you're actually not saying anything, as your definition of MIHOP would have it mean whatever you want it to mean as long as you don't give it any qualifiers.

I've provided qualifiers...

(someone) Made (by any means) It (whatever it is) Happen On Purpose. Quite clear imo.

IF signs of MIHOP emerge from analyses THEN who could be looked at.

Unless "something" can be found which confirms "someone" MADE it (destruction of the buildings) happen on purpose..."who" is redundant.

I'm not going to point fingers at anyone, saying "you did it" before stating what "it" is and that "it" did in fact occur.

Usage of the term has never caused any confusion at the911forum, indeed...

I became aware of femr2's usage (probably among others here) and have never had the slightest difficulty understanding in context that such usage was neutral/open to who was the subject.

Seems folk here have other issues, and axes to grind.

Thus, you were actually being less than honest when you said to a truther "I'm MIHOP", letting him believe that you were using the standard meaning of the acronym - that the USG Made It Happen On Purpose.

Incorrect. The implied open-endedness was probably clear to all, and anyone who thought otherwise could have asked and received a reply.

This fake "debate" about "what MIHOP means" is simply yet another way for many here to "attack femr2".

I've shown this thread multiple resources confirming that the acronym has many meanings, and yet the "argue the toss with femr2" continues.

I see it's now shifting from "only USG-MIHOP" to something else, but it's still "argue with femr2"

Rather Pathetic imo.

 

[femr2]

And, as uke2se has pointed out repeatedly, and you have repeatedly ignored, a "Made It Happen On Purpose" without any "who", "what"(IE: the "It"), or "how"(IE: "On Purpose") is a meaningless term. All you have left is "Made Happen", which is so ambiguous as to be useless for purposes of discussion. And since the "what" is undefined, the "Happen" doesn't refer to anything, merely leaving "Made".

LMAO.

M.I.H.O.P. does not mean exclusively "USG-MIHOP".

M.I.H.O.P. does not mean exclusively "Inside Job".


I imagine the merry-go-round will begin again...

 

[NoahFence]

This fake "debate" about "what MIHOP means" is simply yet another way for many here to "attack femr2".

Then I would suggest stopping replying to this, and get back to the buisiness of the observables / features / graphic-a-rama thread.

 

[uke2se]

I've provided qualifiers...

Here, yes, but as far as I could see, not in the quoted discussion with a fellow truther.

Usage of the term has never caused any confusion at the911forum, indeed...

That's rather strange. It might be because you failed to give qualifiers there as well, prompting everyone to believe you believed that the USG MIHOP.

Seems folk here have other issues, and axes to grind.

Personally, I have a thing against dishonesty.

Incorrect. The implied open-endedness was probably clear to all, and anyone who thought otherwise could have asked and received a reply.

Do you not see a problem here? You're not sure if you were being clear? Given your behavior in this thread, I'd say it's pretty clear that you were being unclear, and I would hazard a guess that it was intentional.

You see, when you use a word that has a standard meaning (like MIHOP), people assume you are using the standard meaning. If you aren't, and fail to qualify your usage of the word, it is not anybody's fault but yours when the word is misunderstood.

This fake "debate" about "what MIHOP means" is simply yet another way for many here to "attack femr2".

There is nothing fake about this debate. People have picked up on an apparent dishonesty in your arguments, and you have so far done nothing to dispel it.

I've shown this thread multiple resources confirming that the acronym has many meanings, and yet the "argue the toss with femr2" continues.

Mhmmm, yeah sure. In that case I have shown this thread to multiple resources confirming that MIHOP implies "US Govenment".

I see it's now shifting from "only USG-MIHOP" to something else, but it's still "argue with femr2"

Rather Pathetic imo.

Yes, your behavior here is rather pathetic.

 

[Dog Town]

I

Rather Pathetic imo.

How rude!

 

[uke2se]

LMAO.

M.I.H.O.P. does not mean exclusively "USG-MIHOP".

M.I.H.O.P. does not mean exclusively "Inside Job".


I imagine the merry-go-round will begin again...

You managed to miss the point yet again. MIHOP without the implied qualifiers is a meaningless word.

 

[femr2]

Here, yes, but as far as I could see, not in the quoted discussion with a fellow truther.

What does MIHOP mean ?

There was never any apparent confusion about meaning, and implying their was is a strawman.

All of which is utterly irrelevant and continuing to focus on "femr2" not "what does MIHOP mean".

Here's a quote for you...

I imagine the perspective of most here is that we are running out/have run out of viable MIHOP scenarios.

That should give you an idea about how the term is applied

prompting everyone to believe you believed that the USG MIHOP

Who ?

Personally, I have a thing against dishonesty.

Me too. Accusing me of dishonesty is pretty despicable behaviour.

Given your behavior in this thread, I'd say it's pretty clear that you were being unclear, and I would hazard a guess that it was intentional.

You'd be wrong.

You see, when you use a word that has a standard meaning (like MIHOP), people assume you are using the standard meaning.

Clearly not...

I became aware of femr2's usage (probably among others here) and have never had the slightest difficulty understanding in context that such usage was neutral/open to who was the subject.

People HERE seems to do so, but they are a very odd bunch and have a desire to "argue with femr2".

The daytime cloudless sky is blue.

There is nothing fake about this debate. People have picked up on an apparent dishonesty in your arguments, and you have so far done nothing to dispel it.

ROFL. I'm not being dishonest. Accusing me of such is very uncivil. Stop it.

 

[Disbelief]

People HERE seems to do so, but they are a very odd bunch and have a desire to "argue with femr2".

I almost never address you, so I am just pointing out flaws in your arguments. You just like to try and make it appear that people are personally attacking you.

ROFL. I'm not being dishonest. Accusing me of such is very uncivil. Stop it.

Actually, you are. Do you understand that on this forum where you are arguing, that MIHOP means USG involvement? If not, you should be able to provide links where individuals besides you use the term differently. If you continue to use the term with such a vague definition, you are being dishonest.

 

[uke2se]

What does MIHOP mean ?

There was never any apparent confusion about meaning, and implying their was is a strawman.

There was never any confusion because everyone was clear that it meant USG MIHOP. Implying it wasn't is a lie.

All of which is utterly irrelevant and continuing to focus on "femr2" not "what does MIHOP mean".

We are focusing on MIHOP, but since you are the only one claiming it means something different than it actually does, focus gets reflected on you as well.

Here's a quote for you...


That should give you an idea about how the term is applied

Yes. Twoofers are running out of plausible arguments to involve the USG.

Who ?

If you quoted more of my post than just that snippet, you would know who.

Me too. Accusing me of dishonesty is pretty despicable behaviour.

Not when you're being dishonest.

You'd be wrong.

I don't think so.

Clearly not...

Lol. Your quote clearly indicates that one has to be aware of your intentions using the word MIHOP before understanding you. That is quite a harsh testimony against your argument.

People HERE seems to do so, but they are a very odd bunch and have a desire to "argue with femr2".

People here have a problem with your abundant dishonesty and many insults.

ROFL. I'm not being dishonest. Accusing me of such is very uncivil. Stop it.

Yes, you are apparently being dishonest, and nothing you have said thus far in this discussion has evidenced anything else.

 

[femr2]

I almost never address you, so I am just pointing out flaws in your arguments.

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for...

Made It Happen On Purpose.

The literal meaning...

WHO made WHAT happen on purpose, and HOW

...are subjective.

You just like to try and make it like people are personally attacking you.

My personal use of the acronym has nothing to do with what the acronym does or does not mean.

Siz pages of argument "about how femr2 uses the acronym MIHOP" is attacking "femr2", not discussing the inherent ambiguity of the acronym.

Do you understand that on this forum where you are arguing, that MIHOP means USG involvement?

Even if that were true, it is irrelevant.

The acronym does not denote the "who", "what" or "how".

If not, you should be able to provide links where individuals besides you use the term differently.

I have. Many times. Re-read the thread.

If you continue to use the term with such a vague definition, you are being dishonest.

Incorrect. I have used the term with what may be validly considered a minority defintiion, but it is neither incorrect nor dishonest to do so.

 

[uke2se]

The acronym does not denote the "who", "what" or "how".

Without the "who", "what" or "how", the acronym is meaningless. That is why there is an implied "who", "what" and "how" when someone uses the phrase "I'm MIHOP". That implied meaning is the same for everyone, except you.

 

[femr2]

There was never any confusion because everyone was clear that it meant USG MIHOP. Implying it wasn't is a lie.

You are speaking for whom ?

Who is this "everyone" ?

Have you asked them ?

Show me the dialogue.

We are focusing on MIHOP, but since you are the only one claiming it means something different than it actually does, focus gets reflected on you as well.

Incorrect. As you have said yourself...

Why do you also get to define "it"? Couldn't "it" be the events as a whole? Couldn't "it" be just the attacks? Face it, femr2. Everyone's MIHOP and the word is meaningless.

You have also highlighted the variable scope of "it".

People here have a problem with your abundant dishonesty and many insults.

You accusation of dishonesty is a blatant baseless slur, and uncivil. Stop it.

Yes, you are apparently being dishonest, and nothing you have said thus far in this discussion has evidenced anything else.

You are incorrect.

Stop making false accusations addressing "femr2".

 

[femr2]

Without the "who", "what" or "how", the acronym is meaningless.

Not entirely, but almost, absolutely.

(Someone) made it (whatever it is) happen on purpose (by any means).

Good to see you understand.

 

[NoahFence]

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for...

Made It Happen On Purpose.

The literal meaning...

WHO made WHAT happen on purpose, and HOW

...are subjective.

....and thus should include the qualifier in front of it.
agree?

 

[Disbelief]

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for...

Made It Happen On Purpose.

The literal meaning...

WHO made WHAT happen on purpose, and HOW

...are subjective.

Not in the 9/11 conspiracy forum to every person here except you.

My personal use of the acronym has nothing to do with what the acronym does or does not mean.

Siz pages of argument "about how femr2 uses the acronym MIHOP" is attacking "femr2", not discussing the inherent ambiguity of the acronym.

People trying to get you to use a term as it is accepted by everyone else is not attacking.

Even if that were true, it is irrelevant.

The acronym does not denote the "who", "what" or "how".

9/11 conspiracy theory forum, as explained to you numerous times. Why are you having such a difficult time learning how to discuss with your audeience?

I have. Many times. Re-read the thread.

I must have missed them. It should be easy for you to link to others in this forum using the term as you insist.

Incorrect. I have used the term with what may be validly considered a minority defintiion, but it is neither incorrect nor dishonest to do so.

Of course it is. To purposely obscure your meaning is to be dishonest.

 

[uke2se]

You are speaking for whom ?

Who is this "everyone" ?

Have you asked them ?

Show me the dialogue.

Google it. MIHOP means, at the very least, "someone other than Al Qaida" made it happen on purpose, signifying that the MIHOP believer is a conspiracy theorist.

Claiming that MIHOP can imply any "who", "what" and "how" you can think of makes the word meaningless, highlighting your dishonesty when you claim "I'm MIHOP". It's either/or, femr. Either you are wrong about this, or you were being dishonest.

Incorrect. As you have said yourself...

You have also highlighted the variable scope of "it".

What are you getting at? Your reply seem to have nothing whatsoever to do with the quoted part of my post.

You accusation of dishonesty is a blatant baseless slur, and uncivil. Stop it.

Not when you are being dishonest, as you apparently are. Then it is just a statement of fact.

You are incorrect.

No, I am not.

Stop making false accusations addressing "femr2".

I am not making false accusations. Why are you referring to yourself in third-person?