How can Dawkins redeem himself?

[Skeptic Ginger]

.....
Oh, but I have. I've seen it, first-hand. As a waitress in the Colorado mountains, for one example. My fellow servers often became irritated with tourists who spoke poor English: "Why do they even come here if they can't speak the language? I don't have time to translate the whole damned menu for them!"

I did try to add that there were exceptions. There are particular exceptions where racism is prevalent and certainly the US has many such areas.

And I doubt my minimal encounter is evidence of widespread disdain for non-French speakers in France, though I have heard that rumor. Perhaps it even made me more sensitive to the occurrences.

.....I know what race is. It's a social construct, not biological. And yes, I still want to quibble that what you experienced was racism, per se. Bigotry, discrimination, sure. But I can't call it racism. You can, though. They're you're feelings, not mine.

How would you describe the qualitative or quantitative difference? The bigotry is based on one belonging to a group not based on what one actually is. If you recognize race is a social construct then why would it matter if the discrimination was based on ethnicity or skin color?

Anyway, I certainly was not claiming to have experienced what black man or woman might have in the South in the 50s. The whole point is that a lot of people have experienced discrimination. It isn't confined to one group of people.

 

[Pardalis]

And I doubt my minimal encounter is evidence of widespread disdain for non-French speakers in France, though I have heard that rumor. Perhaps it even made me more sensitive to the occurrences.

Unfortunately, anti-americanism and anti-English sentiments are very virulent in France. What's ironic is that they adopt more English words into their everyday language than French Canadians do.

 

[AcesHigh]

This I understand. But do you mean that he should just ignore everything and in future think harder before posting, or should be apologize?

apologize for WHAT? For being right?

 

[AcesHigh]

Well thanks for admitting that you think it's OK to try to screw any women you see.

they do. And so do women. And so do men and women have the right to deny any such proposition. Dont be ridiculous.

 

[wipeout]

I've heard Christ redeems, maybe this is an option?

 

[Dani]

Maybe they resented the fact that you can't type French accents?

Touché.

 

[NewtonTrino]

If guys couldn't hit on women they would never have sex and the human race would die out. It's really that simple. To try and blow this out of proportion because it was on an elevator at the end of the night is pretty dumb. Sorry girls, but you're going to get hit on. It's called life, deal with it.

 

[bookitty]

If guys couldn't hit on women they would never have sex and the human race would die out. It's really that simple. To try and blow this out of proportion because it was on an elevator at the end of the night is pretty dumb. Sorry girls, but you're going to get hit on. It's called life, deal with it.

Oh hey, what was I saying about how women are not given the option to be left alone? And you guys were all "nuh uh!"

 

[MikeSun5]

So why were you booted from the restaurant?

Not booted, just not seated (which pleased some patrons enough they felt it necessary to clap as we left). And it was because we were American. I wanted to flip them the bird, but my dad was all MLK with it like, "Let's go. Don't prove their point." It wasn't like we were wearing stars & stripes or even speaking loudly, they just didn't like the Yanks and they let us know.

Mmm, how did we get to here from Dawkins?

I almost asked the same thing, but then I responded to the derail instead.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Touché.

I can't help it if I'm keyboard challenged.

 

[Dani]

I can't help it if I'm keyboard challenged.

By the way. Not that I think Dawkins needs redemption, because I agreed with him although I also think he picked the wrong form of argument, but here it goes: at TAM he announced that his foundation will pay for the childcare costs at future TAM conferences. Apparently, it was planned before elevatorgate. That's very good news.

I'm considering the possibility of flying from Spain for the next TAM. It must be interesting.

This is funny in many ways. I just found out about this through ERV's post at scienceblogs. Her last sentence:

An honest and sincere 'touche', Professor Dawkins.

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/07/dawkins_coup_de_grace_in_vegas.php

See? She didn't put the accent either.

 

[RandFan]

By the way. Not that I think Dawkins needs redemption, because I agreed with him although I also think he picked the wrong form of argument...

False consolation is bad form. But I do think he had a point.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Oh hey, what was I saying about how women are not given the option to be left alone? And you guys were all "nuh uh!"

IMHO you are absolutely correct. There is no option to be left alone. Ring, no ring, boyfriend around etc women will get continually hit on by the men who are attracted to them. I suppose if everyone wore a burka that might solve the issue... but I doubt it does in reality.

 

[Vampire]

IMHO you are absolutely correct. There is no option to be left alone. Ring, no ring, boyfriend around etc women will get continually hit on by the men who are attracted to them. I suppose if everyone wore a burka that might solve the issue... but I doubt it does in reality.

When you leave your dwelling, you compromise your liberty to be left alone. You can't really do anything about that in society.

There are ways to be left alone (bad hygiene, lunacy), but exercising them would probably not be a great idea from the average person's perspective.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Asking Dawkins to "redeem" himself is assuming that he feels like he has something to redeem himself about, which I seriously doubt.

This might need to be read, again, as one of the better responses to the OP.

Note - if anyone wants to take issue with my personal ramblings here, I suggest we split this off, or move that conversation back to the 'other' elevator post, so I'm not derailing Remie's original question.

Over coffee?

I've heard Christ redeems, maybe this is an option?

For RD? Giggled, I did, but per above, RD would first have to want to be redeemed ... sorta like the light bulb being screwed in by the psychiatrists ...

 

[bookitty]

IMHO you are absolutely correct. There is no option to be left alone. Ring, no ring, boyfriend around etc women will get continually hit on by the men who are attracted to them. I suppose if everyone wore a burka that might solve the issue... but I doubt it does in reality.

That's what makes being objectified so much fun! It's best to just admit that you're powerless and pretend to be flattered. Because ring, no ring, boyfriend or no, your job is to be available to men who know nothing about you except that they would like pork you.

But of course, that's not sexist or anything.

 

[blauregen]

IMHO you are absolutely correct. There is no option to be left alone. Ring, no ring, boyfriend around etc women will get continually hit on by the men who are attracted to them. I suppose if everyone wore a burka that might solve the issue... but I doubt it does in reality.

No, apparently it doesn't. Linky.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....
This is funny in many ways. I just found out about this through ERV's post at scienceblogs. Her last sentence:
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/07/dawkins_coup_de_grace_in_vegas.php

"Shaftgate" .... I love it.

 

[MikeSun5]

That's what makes being objectified so much fun! It's best to just admit that you're powerless and pretend to be flattered. Because ring, no ring, boyfriend or no, your job is to be available to men who know nothing about you except that they would like pork you.

But of course, that's not sexist or anything.

I'm sorry if you were really angry, but that was funny as hell.

 

[pipelineaudio]

"Shaftgate" .... I love it.

holy pwnt!

"Dawkins completely pwnts hypocrite attention whores and then pees in the wound by sponsoring free childcare Checkmate indeed"