How can Dawkins redeem himself?

[MikeSun5]

You response tells me you feel it's your right to ask any women you meet to have your children.

Why not?

...apparently she would have the right to respond to that request with bear mace. Or she could go have his children. She has that right, too.

and I've been following this overblown topic for longer than I care to admit and I haven't heard one "Going down?" joke. C'mon guys.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

He said that Rebecca shouldn't complain about being hit on in an elevator because Muslim women have their genital mutilated.

Didn't you ever consider that the whole Muslim comment was aimed at the the community who are all giving their opinion on the whole thing?

As in:

"Why are you all paying your energy on a subject which we (RD and RW) could just as well settle on our own, when there are women in the world who aren't in a position to talk for them self?"

I'm not saying that's how it was meant, but I do think it's a good possibility.

 

[tsig]

Well, after that 4 am coffee in your room, maybe.

If you're a Brad Pitt lookalike, you better be as rich as he is to handle all those paternity suits and childcare payments.

If you're a Quasimodo looklike, it never hurts to try, huh?

For most, whatever floats your boat.

So men have the right to sow their semen whenever they want?

 

[tsig]

Didn't you ever consider that the whole Muslim comment was aimed at the the community who are all giving their opinion on the whole thing?

As in:

"Why are you all paying your energy on a subject which we (RD and RW) could just as well settle on our own, when there are women in the world who aren't in a position to talk for them self?"

I'm not saying that's how it was meant, but I do think it's a good possibility.

I think he meant what he said that Rebecca should be glad that men are just hitting on her and not mutilating her genitals.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

I think he meant what he said that Rebecca should be glad that men are just hitting on her and not mutilating her genitals.

Well, I'm already glad that none of us are actually pretending to know exactly what everything was meant to be.

Because that would really change everything.

 

[tsig]

Why not?

...apparently she would have the right to respond to that request with bear mace. Or she could go have his children. She has that right, too.

and I've been following this overblown topic for longer than I care to admit and I haven't heard one "Going down?" joke. C'mon guys.

Well thanks for admitting that you think it's OK to try to screw any women you see.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

Well thanks for admitting that you think it's OK to try to screw any women you see.

Really ironic how this comment was posted right after mine...


Straw man much?

 

[tsig]

Well, I'm already glad that none of us are actually pretending to know exactly what everything was meant to be.

Because that would really change everything.

I read his words, if we can't take his words as what he meant then how are we even to know? He clearly said that she shouldn't worry about it because Muslim women have it worse.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

I read his words, if we can't take his words as what he meant then how are we even to know? He clearly said that she shouldn't worry about it because Muslim women have it worse.

There is these weird things called sarcasm, cynicism and poor choice of words. You probably know those concepts, so I think you are wilfully ignoring them.

 

[tsig]

There is these weird things called sarcasm, cynicism and poor choice of words. You probably know those concepts, so I think you are wilfully ignoring them.

So RD can't use words properly and you have to interpret them for him?

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

So RD can't use words properly and you have to interpret them for him?

No, but if I don't fully understand someone's meaning, I like to err on the side of caution, and either assume the least extreme scenario, or I ask for clarification.

Since I am not in a position to ask for clarification, I go with the former.

 

[AlBell]

So men have the right to sow their semen whenever they want?

I suppose someone who thinks rape is ok might hold that view.

"Asking" and "sowing" aren't the same thing.

 

[tsig]

No, but if I don't fully understand someone's meaning, I like to err on the side of caution, and either assume the least extreme scenario, or I ask for clarification.

Since I am not in a position to ask for clarification, I go with the former.

If you don't fully understand the words then maybe you should not argue about the meaning.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

If you don't fully understand the words then maybe you should not argue about the meaning.

Did you fully understand it? Or did you merely think you understood it?

 

[tsig]

You response tells me you feel it's your right to ask any women you meet to have your children.

Why not? ...apparently she would have the right to respond to that request with bear mace. Or she could go have his children. She has that right, too.

and I've been following this overblown topic for longer than I care to admit and I haven't heard one "Going down?" joke. C'mon guys.

I suppose someone who thinks rape is ok might hold that view.

"Asking" and "sowing" aren't the same thing.

Apparently women in MikeSuns' vicinity had better carry Mace.

 

[AlBell]

Apparently women in MikeSuns' vicinity had better carry Mace.

And in your vicinity a water tanker to extinguish your straw-men should they catch afire.

 

[Pardalis]

You response tells me you feel it's your right to ask any women you meet to have your children.

No, but if I want to have any children, I have to ask women out some time. Get it?

 

[Pardalis]

I think he meant what he said that Rebecca should be glad that men are just hitting on her and not mutilating her genitals.

That's obviously not what he said, or meant.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Dawkin's redeemed by Depleted Cranium on the Bad Science Blog:

“Hotel Elevator Rape” Is Less Common Than “Man Bites Dog”

But before going into this any further, there’s a question nobody seems to have asked: DO RAPES ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN HOTEL ELEVATORS?
Sure, they have happened. In the history of human race and the billions of hotel stays that have been made, they have happened. But lets get something straight: people have also been struck by meteors on at least two occasions.

[snipped a well researched analysis worth reading]

That is twelve cases of women being assaulted on elevators at hotels, in a period of almost 40 years. Many of these cases the victim managed to get away or the assault didn’t get very far. Granted, it’s possible that there could be others I did not find, and most of the sources I could find were English-language, so that limits the area in question. Still, it this clearly is not something that happens every week or even every year.

Perhaps just as importantly, not a single example can be found which actually fits the MO and circumstances of the situation Rebecca found herself and the fears expressed –

(Sorry if it's been posted, and for my posting it in two threads, but it needs to be seen.)

 

[tesscaline]

I can certainly understand the effects of racism, but as a white woman, I'll never have first-hand knowledge of it.

That's not true at all. I'm a white woman, and I have first-hand knowledge of it. Both when from when it benefits me and from when it negatively impacts me.

Whether or not someone has first hand knowledge of something is irrelevant to whether or not their argument is valid, however. You don't have to have experienced photosynthesis first hand to put forth a valid claim/argument about photosynthesis.

To speak to the general topic here:

Any argument that says RW is automatically right/more knowledgeable about sexism simply by virtue of her being a woman, is fallacious. It is an appeal to false authority.

In addition, the cries of "but she's had it happen to her!" is fallacious. It is akin to the cries from homeopathy supporters crying "but it worked for me!" as "evidence" to support their claims. Just because someone has experienced something does not make them an expert on the matter. It also doesn't mean that their assessment of what they experienced is correct.

The number of fallacious arguments being thrown around on this topic is absolutely mind-boggling, considering that this discussion is happening in the skeptical community. I'm sickened by it.