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Merged News Corp. execs step aside | U.S. begins investigation | Will Fox News be abandoned?

BenBurch said:
No, we have not just speculation, but his first lieutenant arrested, FBI investigations, Scotland Yard visiting the Prime Minister's office and taking records, Parliament looking for blood, and the CEO of Dow Jones resigning... Not just speculation.

Speculation wouldn't have all those supporting elements.
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Actually, it would (or more accurately, could).

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/speculation

"c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition."

You're claiming that evidence exists. To the extent that it does, it's certainly inconclusive. So yes, you're speculating.

What we have here is a founded suspicion.
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Which is not actually incompatible with speculation.

And if it turns out to be true, prosecutions are in order, wouldn't you say? Or do you think he deserves to skate on this?
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If he committed a crime, sure. I never suggested otherwise.
 
Ziggurat said:
Which is not actually incompatible with speculation.
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If that's the definition you're using then, "speculation" is pretty serious. It would be a misdirection to call it "just speculation" when speculation may involve investigation and evidence. It's sort of like calling evolution "just a theory".
 
shadron said:
AFAIK, the only thing that requires American citizenship is the two highest offices in the land (and they require it be by birth).
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Voting requires citizenship. As far as I know, holding of elected office at the Federal level and in any jurisdiction requires citizenship.


Citizenship is not revocable, I don't think. I don't think it can even be officially renounced.
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Naturalized citizenship is revocable if the person is later found to have lied on their citizenship application. Citizenship, natural born or naturalized, can be renounced by an adult on one's own behalf (meaning to say that no one may renounce a minor's citizenship).
 
Tricky said:
If that's the definition you're using then, "speculation" is pretty serious.
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It's potentially serious, IF the circumstantial evidence develops into direct evidence. But until events play themselves out, well, there's really not much we can say. The evidence at this point doesn't actually indicate guilt, because as of now there is no evidence that Murdoc himself was involved. So yes, it is indeed just speculation. What's mostly going on in this thread is the expression of a desire for guilt. And when you let your desires guide your conclusions before adequate evidence is available, well, that's a good way to fool yourself. I'm not sure why you would try to defend that habit.
 
leftysergeant said:
Bribing foreign officials is a felony. Since corrporations are persons, it seems to me that when Murdoch gets deproted, his corporation might also be liquidated.
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Assuming you mean "deported" (and "deproted" isn't some new insult you invented because "drongo" isn't a verb), by what means would that be effected?

He is a US citizen. They are non-deportable from the United States, except for the singular action of fraudulently obtaining such citizenship.

Have you some evidence he was fraudulent in obtaining his US citizenship, or are you just blowing smoke again?
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Have you some evidence he was fraudulent in obtaining his US citizenship, or are you just blowing smoke again?
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He runs that herd of swine like a tyrant, so he is in on the crime of bribing foreign officials. The only way for it not to be a felony is for him not to be a citizen. He can renounce his citizenship and leave.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Assuming you mean "deported" (and "deproted" isn't some new insult you invented because "drongo" isn't a verb), by what means would that be effected?

He is a US citizen. They are non-deportable from the United States, except for the singular action of fraudulently obtaining such citizenship.

Have you some evidence he was fraudulent in obtaining his US citizenship, or are you just blowing smoke again?
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I can't follow without a score card. So now US citizenship is sacrosanct again? Jose Padilla on line two. Will you hold?
 
leftysergeant said:
He runs that herd of swine like a tyrant, so he is in on the crime of bribing foreign officials. The only way for it not to be a felony is for him not to be a citizen. He can renounce his citizenship and leave.
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In other words, if he's guilty of the crimes you think he committed then he has the option of renouncing his citizenship, at which point he may be deported.

How many locomotives do you need to pull that exceedingly long train of conjecture?
 
Unabogie said:
I can't follow without a score card. So now US citizenship is sacrosanct again? Jose Padilla on line two. Will you hold?
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Jose Padilla never had his citizenship revoked, nor has he been deported. Nor was that ever threatened, AFAIK. Yet you're using his example to support that.
:bunpan
 
London's top cop quits over alleged Murdoch ties

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/17/501364/main20080179.shtml

<SNIP>

London's police chief has quit over his links to a former News of the World editor caught up in the phone hacking scandal.

<SNIP>

His resignation comes hours after it was reported that News International executive Rebekah Brooks was arrested - the 10th figure arrested in the growing scandal involving phone hacking by employees of Rupert Murdoch's newspapers.


<SNIP>
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My prediction is that there will be much noise, smoke and angry words, and in the end nothing will change wrt Fox and the other Murdoch media properties in the U.S.
 
Ziggurat said:
Ah, that. So, just speculation at this point, along with some delusions from people like lefty about what will happen if the speculation is true. When you want something unsubstantiated to be true, that's when you should be especially careful that you don't let yourself get carried away.
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NI staff and contractors have already been found guilty and served prison sentences for the above and NI have admitted there were more people involved than originally thought. Also the ex-CEO of the UK side of the organisation is on record stating that they did pay the police (during an appearance in front of a select committee) so I'm unsure which of the crimes mentioned is meant to be "speculation"?
 
Darat said:
NI staff and contractors have already been found guilty and served prison sentences for the above and NI have admitted there were more people involved than originally thought. Also the ex-CEO of the UK side of the organisation is on record stating that they did pay the police (during an appearance in front of a select committee) so I'm unsure which of the crimes mentioned is meant to be "speculation"?
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It is only the fact that we have all experienced the stunning disconnect between upper management and reality that allows us to even consider that the entire organization could be doing the same bad things without the guy in the corner office knowing anything about it.
 
NI has, IMO, a bad case of selective corporate amnesia.

They keep failing to recall incidents of phone hacking and paying police but can immediately lay their hands on a video when they have one that contradicts Gordon Brown's view on the way in which news of his son's CF was released.
 
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