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WTC dust

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WTC DUST: I was there that day, my sister's apartment was covered in dust. I remember the smells down there too, absolutely horrible. But what do you expect from a burning collapsed building full of office equipment and PEOPLE? Yes, the smell WAS strange but the cocktail of stuff involved isn't something anyone smells regularly, is it?

I see you're also a no-planer, ugh. You won't take on board anything I say but I'm saying it anyway.

I saw the second plane, with my own eyes. It's something that will stay with me forever, no photo or video can ever truely live up to seeing that thing with my own eyes. Even now I get panicky if a plane flies over pretty low (I live on flight path where they can get pretty low sometimes). The sight and sound of it will never leave me, or the smell of jet fuel and burning flesh. We SAW aircraft parts on the streets, and bits of what were once PEOPLE.

YOU come here and spew out crap at an alarming rate, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Really, you haven't. Yes I saw the buildings come down and that too is something I can recall like it was yesterday. They did not turn to dust, there were thousands of tons of steel slamming down, it literally shook the ground as it hit the floor.

The fact that you witnessed this stuff and that it was real does not matter to people like Dr. Dusty. What matters is that this is a vehicle for her to get attention, to make herself feel important, smarter, and more special than other people.
It's self-aggrandizement writ large by attention-seeking people with personality disorders, rather than a respect for truth.

Claiming that there were no planes, that the buildings turned to dust are blatant, transparent efforts at this kind of attention-seeking. They have no basis in physical reality, but are obvious lies. We know this, you know this....that's really all that matters.
 
WTC Dust, please stay the hell away from the legalisation movement. You're not doing anyone any favours.

Oh and any evidence of your spacebeams and dustification?

No?

Pity.
 
My god, dtugg! What is it with this clairvoyance thing you've got going on?

Stop claiming you know what is inside the minds of other people. It makes you sounds spooky.

Scene 1: Steel buildings.
Scene 2: Dust.

WTF happened? Don't tell me thermite, and don't tell me planes. GO!











After you do this exercise, you'll see why I'm talking about Judy Wood and asking you all to debunk her science. She's talking about advanced technology, but she's making sense. I'd like to see her science picked apart, and you all are the premier debunkers, so go ahead.

You must be trolling.
 
Judy Wood's "advanced science" is so advanced it doesn't even exist, except in theoretical terms.
 
Those who pretend to know things ought to back up their claims with real research in order to distinguish themselves from all the other know-nothings on the internet.


WTC Dust: If you don't want to spend the time familiarizing yourself with my work, then that is your choice. If you desire to, take a look at my blogspot of the very same name. http://wtcdust.blogspot.com and review my seminar online that is mentioned on the blog.
You claim to be a good scientist, so this excuse makes you appear very feeble indeed. Just sayin'.

WTC Dust: Why do you say this? The internet, especially the James Randi Forum, is not the same thing as a peer reviewed journal. So why should I bother going through that particular effort...at your request and answering your research questions? I'm busy making discoveries and talking about those discoveries. I'm not in the question-answering business.


Another utter copout. For starters, you need to explain the mechanism in order to test the hypothesis.



WTC Dust: Research is done in parts. I did a part of it. You can cry about what work I have not done, but what you're really doing is ignoring the discovery that I actually did make (that the WTC was almost entirely turned into at least two types of metallic foam). I didn't discover the mechanism, and maybe nobody has yet, but the two best contenders are Drs. Judy Wood and Frederick Henry-Couannier. Each of them sheds a particular light on the subject.

Dr. Wood's training and presentation style is that of a professor of mechanical engineering, and, among other things, her work makes me smile. She explains 9/11 from basic principles, almost like the engineering joke that every problem can be solved if you start with a sphere. She delves into the physical principles that must be known in order to understand the evidence that she presents.

I don't know how much you know about my personal story, but to repeat myself, I was humbled by 9/11. I knew that what I was seeing on the TV screen did not represent anything within the bounds of what I already knew and understood. For a young Ph.D. graduate, I had sort of a sinking feeling that I'd have to go back to the drawing board in a big way.

Many loudmouthed people in the 9/11 Truth Movement (Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth being the leaders at the moment) were not equivalently humbled. They basically say it was traditional controlled demolition. All they can think of that would have done the damage was bombs (a.k.a. explosive devices), so it must be that. Arrogant, I say.

Dr. Henry-Couannier comes at this from a particle physicist perspective, and is currently a professor in that same field. I hope this isn't spilling the beans, but he thinks it's cold fusion and that Steven Jones is a strange player in the 9/11 research field (having come to fame during the so-called debunking of cold fusion discovered by Pons and Fleischman in the 1980's).

Frederick's viewpoint is highly mathematical, and very focused on atomic and molecular events. I haven't spent as much time studying his work, and most of it is in French, after all, but it boils down to that he came to the same conclusion as I did, which is also the same conclusion that Dr. Wood came to. The WTC was destroyed in a relatively cool process. He suggests that at a subatomic level, there was some heat involved, but that this heat had what he referred to as a temperature discontinuity. In other words, very high temperatures in some areas, but contained to that area alone. Overall, the explosion did not generate the kind of heat that could injure a human being or light paper on fire.

You've utterly failed to do that.
Secondly, you did not discover that steel became foam, you are merely making the specious claim that it became foam, while offering zero evidence.


WTD Dust: Just look at my blog mentioned above.
Your fake claims that much of the steel is missing are outright lies, which makes most of your claims fraudulent in nature, if not by intent.

WTD Dust: I'm not claiming the steel went missing. I'm claiming it became the foamy dust that you see coming down from the Twin Towers and layering lower Manhattan and spewing up into the sky.


You're really not distinguishable from a simple fraud case so far. Perhaps you're just delusional, I'll give you that. I can't tell the difference at this point.

I agree with others that your ideas and antics are mildly amusing, for those who wish to peer into delusional beliefs, but are worth nothing more than that at this point. You're not going to fool many people, certainly no scientists apart from a few insane fringe theorists like the one from whom you've borrowed most of your thinking.


WTC Dust: If I hadn't already made contacts with other interested scientists and been met with interest, then what you say might make sense.
 
Were you standing 1 foot away from the fence?

Not at the time that I mention, no. Just look at the available images. They prove my point, so you don't have to believe my personal testimony.

The available images of the aftermath of 9/11 show a very short debris pile where each of the Twin Towers used to stand, some tallish pieces leaning over, almost nothing at all left of WTC 3, nothing but the north wing of WTC 4, multiple circular holes in the roof of WTC 5, and a complete gutting of WTC 6 down to the ground level on the interior only.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen when a plane crashes into a building and starts it on fire. That kind of thing happens all the time, and the building survives. They put the fire out, and the building survives. It doesn't go poof. Just research the Bellaire Apts in New York City for a similar plane-hits-building story, and see for yourself.
 
So there was foam everywhere? What kind of foam? This strikes me as about as meaningful as thermite. There are many journals that carry research on foam. Maybe you could write this up and submit it. And if that doesn't work, you can shell out a couple of hundred bucks to get it into Open Physical Chemistry Journal. I understand they'll publish anything.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I'm not planning to do that. I'm going for the very best journals.
 
This kind of stuff doesn't happen when a plane crashes into a building and starts it on fire. That kind of thing happens all the time, and the building survives. They put the fire out, and the building survives. It doesn't go poof. Just research the Bellaire Apts in New York City for a similar plane-hits-building story, and see for yourself.

That's a joke, right?


 
With my samples, it's interesting, though. The chain of custody has one link: me. I discovered the samples where Providence laid them down. I found them and secured them immediately. I published where, when and how I obtained them. :-) I used to be responsible for the people who tested human samples, and industry is a pretty big biatch about that kind of thing. I know about samples, and I know about what makes a sample valid or not.

The samples can be criticized as imperfect, but you don't really have a grasp of the issue of contamination, especially with respect to these samples.

Contamination by itself is not sufficient to throw out forensic evidence, despite what you learned about while watching the OJ trial. A cigarette butt thrown in the general area of my dust samples does not mean that the cigarette butt has anything to do with the samples. It might, if I were stupid enough to come to the conclusion that the WTC was destroyed due to a cigarette fire, but I'm a bit sharper than that. I have to ask myself, "Is a cigarette butt thrown on a different shelf ENOUGH to cause contamination several feet away on this shelf?" My answer is "no" unless you can say something specific about it that makes it important.

Also, a big thing you are forgetting is that the reason you know about the cigarette butts is because I am a real scientist. I looked for possible signs of contamination, found them, recorded them, and presented them to you on this forum and on my blog. I'm not worried about the cigarette butts.

Other types of possible contamination? You haven't mentioned anything serious. Rain? Big deal. A few drops of rain might get on the top of the dust pile. What else is there? Soot and smoke from other buildings? Fine. Let's add that possibility in there. There's nothing about smoke, soot, rain or anything else commonly found on streets of cities that can produce metallic foam.

So I say you're contamination worries are justified, but it doesn't invalidate my samples.


I'm going to explain this one more time, Dusty; if you still refuse to acknowledge the contamination, then I'm done with you.

The WTC site was essentially a giant crime scene. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people were crawling all over it in the days immediately following 9/11, collecting samples and examining evidence, because they were aware of one simple fact: EVIDENCE IS USELESS IF IT IS NOT COLLECTED AS SWIFTLY AS POSSIBLE TO AVOID CONTAMINATION OF SAMPLES.

By contrast, earlier in this thread, you yourself admitted that the "sample" you collected was discovered by you over EIGHT YEARS AFTER 9/11. In the intervening time, the likelihood of soil, cigarette ash, various bodily fluids, and samples of material never found within the WTC buildings being found in your sample rises exponentially with every passing hour. Being under an overhang means nothing; wind goes where it will if a particular spot is not hermetically sealed off, and it could easily have brought both minuscule organic and inorganic material to the site, not to mention all the various homeless people who likely found shelter under that overhang at one point or another and, lacking facilities of their own, made use of the corner as a toilet or eating location, adding their own samples to the pile. Because you do not know what exactly was introduced to your sample in the intervening eight+ years before your discovery of it, you have no way of determining anything of use about the mechanism of collapse of the WTC buildings; indeed, you have no way of determining if the sample even CAME from the WTC buildings, or was simply a collection of material blown there over the years from nearby locations. Construction/demolition materials in the area following the cleanup of the site, the dirt that you find easily in city streets, crumbs of food, various contributions both from rodents/insects as well as humans; all of these could have very easily made their way to your collection site in the intervening time, and ALL of them would contaminate any sample of the WTC building materials, if in fact your dust pile WERE from the collapse of those buildings (which, again, you have no way of knowing for sure).

A true forensic researcher knows that the chain of custody of a piece of evidence is crucial to maintaining the capability of said evidence to be introduced in a court of law. They need to know exactly where it came from, down to the actual grid coordinates of the location if need be (barring that, at least knowing it came from the southeast corner of the site, for example); they need to know who handled it before them, and above all, they need to know it was collected in a timely fashion, so they know what else they might need to account for in the sample. Of those three criteria, you meet only one of them; you know where you found the sample. What you don't know is its origin or what might have been introduced to contaminate the sample in the intervening time, and without accounting for either of those factors, your sample is utterly useless. If you cannot acknowledge that, then bragging about your degree or whatever else you've worked on won't save you from being known as the woman who touted a pile of dust of indeterminate origin as being the mechanism by which the WTC towers collapsed. Any competent scientist would literally be rolling on the ground laughing at your shoddy investigation techniques. I'm a layman, and even I'M laughing at them, so that should tell you something.

I don't doubt you've had some success in the past in your chosen field (which, as I recall, is some form of biology), but I'll give you some advice, free of charge; stick to the area you're actually TRAINED in, and leave forensic research to the experts in the future. You might find people would be a lot less inclined to laugh at you if you do.
 
I forgot to tell you that I involved many other people in the collection and recording of the find. Remember that I didn't take any of the pictures that I've been showing you? Somebody else (a journalist) is who took these pictures. Other 9/11 researchers were also involved. At least a dozen people know exactly where I found the samples, and they are all impressed and excited by it.
 
This kind of stuff doesn't happen when a plane crashes into a building and starts it on fire. That kind of thing happens all the time, and the building survives. They put the fire out, and the building survives. It doesn't go poof. Just research the Bellaire Apts in New York City for a similar plane-hits-building story, and see for yourself.

So the resultant damage from the crash of an aircraft that weighs about the same as a pickup truck and travelling about 80 MPH is equivalent to that of an airliner weighing 200,000+ pounds travelling at 400 MPH(with a fuel load that is multiple times more massive than the entire smaller aircraft).

Yeah similar, real similar. ,,, and Mars is similar to Earth too. They are both rocky planets orbiting the same star. Obviously the NWO's dustification beam is older than we think as there is no life on Mars and that simply cannot happen with rocky planets orbiting the same star. The NWO killed off life on Mars a long time ago, just look at it, all dried out and red.

I thought you had a science degree of some sort.:rolleyes:
 
Look at the evidence again. Much of the foam went up.

Foamed "up"?

Um, no. The dust cloud did not go "up".

WTC Dust, when you state the pile was, in your opinion, not big enough, please do the calculations that quantify how big it should have been, and how big it actually was. Hint, the LiDAR data that is publically available gives a good starting point for the actual height of the debris.

For all of the CTists who make similar claims, very few have any sort of grasp on just how little material there is in a steel-frame building, and just how compressible that material is.
 
Not precisely, no. I'm telling you that the find (meaning the entire amount of dust that I found) was contaminated. I showed you pictures.

I'm also admitting that any analysis of the samples that I took must take this into account. Can a cigarette butt seriously color my results? It's a question I obviously asked and answered myself before you mentioned it. The pictures of the cigarette butts are on my website.

OBVIOUSLY, they are a possible source of contamination, as are rain, street dirt, sweet wrappers and the rest.

But is it relevant? Is this kind of contamination relevant to my conclusions? I say no. If I detected bacterial contamination, mouse feces, etc., even worse things that have been mentioned in this part of the discussion, how would any of that produce metallic foam? It wouldn't, therefore the contamination of the find (but not my particular samples) is not a deal breaker.

And IIRC she noticed that there were cigarette butts on or in the dust, but since she avoided picking up any of the butts, she claims the sample is definitely uncontaminated.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
The official 9/11 story contradicts iteself on many levels. Don't blame me for that. I didn't say all that garbage was true.

Nope.

The Official Story states the a good portion of the building fell outside of their footprints, including the bits that set WTC 7 on fire, and crushed WTC 6. Your attempt to backdoor the Truther "own footprint" meme through the euphemism "directly downward" is transparent.
 
Everyone has also forgotten that, in addition to being a acolyte of Dr. Judy Wood, Dusty is a no-planer. I posted several paragraphs explaining how easily an airframe could penetrate steel beams to which she replied "assumes a plane".

I believe that her cheese has slipped off of her cracker. Either that or she's giving us the best chain-yanking in the history of the forum.

Well she did give us naked pics.
 
This kind of stuff doesn't happen when a plane crashes into a building and starts it on fire. That kind of thing happens all the time, and the building survives. They put the fire out, and the building survives. It doesn't go poof. Just research the Bellaire Apts in New York City for a similar plane-hits-building story, and see for yourself.

Epic Facepalm. There are no appropriate images.
 
I forgot to tell you that I involved many other people in the collection and recording of the find. Remember that I didn't take any of the pictures that I've been showing you? Somebody else (a journalist) is who took these pictures. Other 9/11 researchers were also involved. At least a dozen people know exactly where I found the samples, and they are all impressed and excited by it.


Where were they on 12/1/10?
 
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