Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[jaydeehess]

Every time I see lists like that, or look at Jamie Hyneman's list, I always feel inadequate.

Odd, I felt the same way with Lefty's list.

Jay Utah's
Phil Plait's
several other poster's resumes here and at BAUT
yep, Hyneman's would do it too.

I might add that the weather balloon tracking equipment was at three sites all well, well north of the 60th latitude.

But then Clayton and Iffy apparently have so much more schooling and experience upon which to draw its scary to others here.

 

[Bell]

Wouln't the fire on floor 7 be enough to start a fire on floor 8? Yikes.

Not if you don't understand the holy trinity of fire.

 

[Clayton Moore]

The debris damage had no real impact on collapse initiation but it was definitely relevant to the collapse. I think you need to learn what words mean.

I love the banter. piss off gravity collapse collapse initiation
no water available

They roll off tongues like the dialogue of a B SYFI movie.

Where are all the fixes and zoning changes for every building susceptible to a possible gravity collapse?

Where are the books and papers by architects and engineers concerning what we learned about how to prevent gravity collapses after 9/11?

You gotta love the childlike bravado and assertiveness.

The only way to explain 9/11 is that the Bermuda Triangle moved to the US for a day.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post

I gotta love it when people start with the 'you seem to have done a lot in your time' in a sarcastic non-believing tone..

I am over 55 and have
fought forest fires
weighed heavy trucks
set up lightning detectors
maintained weather balloon tracking systems
maintained air-ground radio and nav systems
maintained cable TV head ends
maintained all electronic aspects of a TV station

,,,,and that does not count some summer jobs during high school and college (where I excelled in math and physics)

Every time I see lists like that, or look at Jamie Hyneman's list, I always feel inadequate.

Not me. My son became a Special Education teacher.

 

[Animal]

I love the banter. piss off gravity collapse collapse initiation
no water available

They roll off tongues like the dialogue of a B SYFI movie.

Where are all the fixes and zoning changes for every building susceptible to a possible gravity collapse?

Where are the books and papers by architects and engineers concerning what we learned about how to prevent gravity collapses after 9/11?

You gotta love the childlike bravado and assertiveness.

The only way to explain 9/11 is that the Bermuda Triangle moved to the US for a day.

<sigh> every building from the first structure ever built by man has been, and will always be susceptible to gravity collapse. The fact that there are still troofers out there that have trouble understanding that concept is hysterical.

 

[sylvan8798]

Where are all the fixes and zoning changes for every building susceptible to a possible gravity collapse?

Where are the books and papers by architects and engineers concerning what we learned about how to prevent gravity collapses after 9/11?

Huh?

 

[beachnut]

... You gotta love the childlike bravado and assertiveness.

The only way to explain 9/11 is that the Bermuda Triangle moved to the US for a day.

When can we expect some evidence to save your claims from their present state of being delusional nonsense? Time table for success? A final conclusion based on evidence? Anything?

 

[Bell]

Huh?

I guess Clayton Moore went to school together with DeathDart...

Why do we investigate plane crashes when nearly all of them are caused by gravity?

Gravity, how the **** does it work?

 

[DeathDart]

Ok, fresh meat for the wolves

There is a problem with the Sulfuric Acid scenario

The problem is that there is TOO MUCH Sulfuric Acid.

If you combine gypsum with clay and carbon above 700C you will produce SO2, which combines with water to produce Sulfuric Acid H2SO4. At 700C the reaction barely runs, the higher the temperature the faster sulfuric acid is produced. Sulfuric Acid H2SO4 reacts with steel to produce hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas burns with a very hot flame.

The conditions after the collapse, lots of poorly oxygenated fires, 100s(?) tons of gypsum, temperatures of 700C-1100C. Carbon Monoxide produced by oxygen poor fires combines with hot gypsum to form sulfur dioxide. SO2 combines with water to form H2SO4.

I am going to conservatively GUESS that several tons of sulfuric acid were produced. There would have been a lot of Swiss cheese metal. Determining when the metal became Swiss cheese is the problem.

Conversely spraying the gypsum with a mixture of clay and coke (Carbon) means that above 700C the gypsum would begin to emit some SO2, which combines with water to make Sulfuric Acid.

So without anybody doing anything, there would be a lot of sulfuric acid produced from the gypsum and the underground fires.

Arsonists or not, you still have Swiss cheese metal if it gets buried with gypsum and fires.

 

[DeathDart]

I have a very high confidence level for the natural production of Sulfuric Acid under the conditions present at WTC.

 

[leftysergeant]

There is a problem with the Sulfuric Acid scenario

The problem is that there is TOO MUCH Sulfuric Acid.

If you combine gypsum with clay and carbon above 700C you will produce SO2, which combines with water to produce Sulfuric Acid H2SO4. At 700C the reaction barely runs, the higher the temperature the faster sulfuric acid is produced. Sulfuric Acid H2SO4 reacts with steel to produce hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas burns with a very hot flame.

The conditions after the collapse, lots of poorly oxygenated fires, 100s(?) tons of gypsum, temperatures of 700C-1100C. Carbon Monoxide produced by oxygen poor fires combines with hot gypsum to form sulfur dioxide. SO2 combines with water to form H2SO4.

You do have lucid moments, I'll give you that.

 

[DeathDart]

They are just moments.

 

[leftysergeant]

Not me. My son became a Special Education teacher.

Ask him to explain the concept of "confabulation." There's a lot of that going on in Da Twoof.

(I majored in Special Ed myself, but got too creeped out working with autistic kids. Confabulation is not rare among developmentally disabled people.)

 

[Christopher7]

Edited by Myriad: 

personalized remark removed

How did I know that would happen?

The selective enforcement is noted. Most of the comments here contain or are entirely insults. But no worries.

 

[dafydd]

The problem with "theories" like Chris7's is that you need an ENTIRE NARRATIVE, not just a series of "possible" isolated events. As soon as you attempt to construct a narrative with the isolated events, you get something that doesn't make any sense.

Take WTC7. It's wired for demolition, and now the plan is to depend on the collapse of WTC1 to do some damage and start some fires, which can later be blamed for the "collapse". How do you control that? Won't there be a problem if there is no damage or fire from WTC1? What if there is TOO MUCH damage and it falls down right away? After the damage is there, you get an engineer to lie and tell the FDNY that there is a risk of collapse.

Then, some of the fires go out, and you don't feel like there is ENOUGH fire to "blame" so you have some guys run in (after threatening the FDNY with guns) and start some more fires. Even though you already have some pretty good damage that NIST can easily "blame" for the collapse. Then you tell NIST to find some excuse and they take 6 years to come up with some rather esoteric idea of thermally expanding girders, which they completely fabricate.

Now I see why no truther has ever presented an alternative theory here.

 

[Christopher7]

So fire doesn't grow, get bigger and move on to the next available fuel source?

You ARE that stupid. You don't even know wood beams can suffer from creep. Hell, I know that.

Like this one

 

[dafydd]

How did I kanow that would happen?

The selective enforcement is noted. Most of the comments here contain or are entirely insults. But no worries.

It's frustration,you just hand wave away all comments that intrude upon your fantasy. No wonder that real engineers and firemen get shirty with you.

 

[Christopher7]

In C7's world, the CIA and FBI have the power to do pretty much anything, and to make everybody keep their mouths shut about anything. That is obvious because nobody has ever blown the whistle on any wrongdoing of the CIA or FBI in their history.

Oh, wait. Never mind.

Whistle blowers lose their jobs and sometimes are framed and go to prison. Google "whistle blowers" and see what people like Coleen Rowley has to say.

 

[Christopher7]

It's frustration,you just hand wave away all comments that intrude upon your fantasy. No wonder that real engineers and firemen get shirty with you.

You are the one who lives in a fantasy world and the comments are 90% personal attacks.

 

[Oystein]

There is a problem with the Sulfuric Acid scenario

The problem is that there is TOO MUCH Sulfuric Acid.

If you combine gypsum with clay and carbon above 700C you will produce SO2, which combines with water to produce Sulfuric Acid H2SO4. At 700C the reaction barely runs, the higher the temperature the faster sulfuric acid is produced. Sulfuric Acid H2SO4 reacts with steel to produce hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas burns with a very hot flame.

The conditions after the collapse, lots of poorly oxygenated fires, 100s(?) tons of gypsum, temperatures of 700C-1100C. Carbon Monoxide produced by oxygen poor fires combines with hot gypsum to form sulfur dioxide. SO2 combines with water to form H2SO4.

I am going to conservatively GUESS that several tons of sulfuric acid were produced. There would have been a lot of Swiss cheese metal. Determining when the metal became Swiss cheese is the problem.

Conversely spraying the gypsum with a mixture of clay and coke (Carbon) means that above 700C the gypsum would begin to emit some SO2, which combines with water to make Sulfuric Acid.

So without anybody doing anything, there would be a lot of sulfuric acid produced from the gypsum and the underground fires.

Arsonists or not, you still have Swiss cheese metal if it gets buried with gypsum and fires.

Not all of the debris pile was exposed to temperatures above 700°C. Only pockets get that hot in any smouldering mound, depending on oxygene and fuel availability. So you need all of these at the same location to produce SO2:
- gypsum
- clay
- carbon (do you mean CO?)
- above 700C
You just don't have all the gypsum mixed with enough clay and exposed to streams of CO at >700°C.