Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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sylvan8798 said:
Care to speculate on why NIST would spend years coming up with a complicated false theory rather than saying that the debris damage caused the failure?
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They needed a theory derived from the fire that didn't bring the building down that would help other buildings stand up to fire better.

Animal said:
"Like a classical CD" except for.....

  • besides that, yeah it was "just like a classical CD" just like a pickle is the same as a Volkswagen.
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  • I just realized he leaped from "'people' recognize it went down like a classic CD" to the implied "'people' know it was a CD".

    Is there a name for the sort of sophistry where you present a fact, and then present a conclusion as if it were the same as the fact?
 
Clayton Moore said:
If they had fought the fire the nonsense of fire weakening the steel wouldn't have happened and therefore no collapse.
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,,, and if {insert favorite football team's name} had {insert type of play} instead of going for the field goal they would have won the game.

FACT is Clayton they determined that it was not worth the risk to personell and did not keep men in the building.

Chris and Clayton, YES it is determined years after the fact with all the data and structural details of the building in hand to say that the impact damage to the structure was not sufficient to cause a global collapse. We KNOW for certain that there were partial collapses , just look at pictures of the SW corner. There was ample evidence that a partial collapse could occur at any time especially in the lower SW part of the building.
Chris attributes magical prescience to engineers in saying that one would just know by looking at the building that it would not collapse (partially or globally) and risk further FDNY deaths.

Another oddity in Chris' statements is that he says no Chief actually said they had other priorities for the water supply yet is quite content to read into a line of text that there was enough water and personell to fight the fires in WTC 7, that does not actually say so.
Instead what it says is that at that time they could consider the possibility of fighting WTC 7. NIST cites an interview with the Chiefs about the discussion at this time in which the do consider the possibility and then DECIDE not to do it!
End of story,,,, except Chris has alluded to NIST simply fabricating this interview,,, indicating that the Chiefs have for some unexplanable reason simply allowed this lie to be told on their behalf.

oooohhhh but Chris is not saying that the Chiefs are cowards,,, no they are faced with a Serpico style choice and all choose silence.

I asked Chris how the supposed conspirators could be willing to pin their very lives on these men keeping their silence FOREVER.

No answer.

Chris 7's ideology has him grasping at straws like never before.
 
I'm back.
I had to bury something that didn't want to be buried.

The World Trade Center was old it was having a lot of issues with maintenance and asbestos. Occupancy was in decline. This does fit the pattern for property to be used in an arson for profit scheme.

Securacom has deactivated the security cameras so that the movement of men and materials is not documented.

It wasn't Hush a Boom, it was thermally accelerated acid. But one of you already knew that.

The building may have been prepped for a conventional insurance scam. The chemical acid (sulfur based?) is applied as a (jell?) to the heat insulation in the core areas of the building and along the elevator shafts. At room temperature the reaction is very slow. This would also give off a minor sulfur smell, which would be masked by burning electrical insulation and other materials when the fire began.

Combined with the heat from a fire, the chemical reaction proceeds much more rapidly. Under typical fire conditions it would have took much longer than an hour for the buildings to collapse. The arson plan might have took as much as a day for the fires, along with the acid, to collapse the buildings.

The time it took WTC 7 to collapse was probably closer to the expected amount of time.

Once the building collapsed the debris pile became a huge hydrogen generator. The acid releases hydrogen after reacting with metals like steel and aluminum. The flame temperature of hydrogen burning in a air mixture is 2483K or 2210C. At some places under the rubble there are active hydrogen fires near concentrations of steel. The hydrogen-air flame is hot enough to melt steel. The steel is melted while it is in the ground.

The removal of steel before examination makes much more sense now. The core would have been visibly damaged by a corrosive substance. Some steel matching this description was recovered. This would also explain the quick (and pre-planned) response of the companies removing the steel.

The people prepping the building would be under the impression that their arson would cause only a few casualties. They did not know about the planes!

Securacom would not have any security video of passengers boarding the planes, because they thought they were just covering up some much lesser crime. So the while the Securacom people were probably criminal, they were also ignorant of the real goals of this plan.

This significantly reduces the number of people who knew about 9-11 ahead of time.

But who, or what, is the Spider at the center of this web pulling on all the threads?
 
Why K-Tel?
You are correct, I thought Kabuki was a static art form and not as dynamic as it is.

This explains WTC 7 and reduces the number of central conspirators considerably.

It explains the high temperatures that could not be accounted for and the molten steel.

It explains why the steel was removed before inspection.
 
Removed to Fresh Kills, Staten Island, where much of it remains buried underground to this day. A lot of the "removed" steel didn't even leave New York City.

It was pored over by detectives and forensic experts looking for bodies, for ten months. The gov't was literally giving it away for memorials and suchlike.

http://www.lightresearch.net/buffalo/freshkills.html
 
Once WYC 7 has been prepped it was irreversible. They start the fires so the acid could complete its work.

The groaning and creaking that was occurring in WTC 7 was indicating imminent failure. They were smart not to try and stop it. The jell or paste may have contained SO2 Sulfur Dioxide. Water from fighting the fire, would just make it change to H2SO4 Sulfuric Acid, dissolving and weakening the steel even quicker.
 
000063 said:
Removed to Fresh Kills, Staten Island, where much of it remains buried underground to this day. A lot of the "removed" steel didn't even leave New York City.

It was pored over by detectives and forensic experts looking for bodies, for ten months. The gov't was literally giving it away for memorials and suchlike.

http://www.lightresearch.net/buffalo/freshkills.html
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Irrelevant, the stuff underground was not at locations to be affected by the acid. NIST NCSTAR 1-3b inventory is less than 1% of the building. They even have problems keeping the steel they mark See Page 4 NIST NCSTAR 1-3b .

Now that Bush is gone, shall we ask NIST for their real opinions of the investigation.

You are just repeating the BIG LIE that this was an investigation. I have justifiable pride in my abilities and I could not see completing a proper investigation, with patient removal of the steel, in anything under 2 years. I would have preferred as much as 4 years.

The timetable of steel removal DID NOT ALLOW a proper investigation.

You need to track back your sources and see what were their results. And you will find nothing. They were just being used as a smoke screen for getting rid of the evidence.

The investigators NEVER CONTROLLED THE SITE.
 
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Where the hell did sulferic acid come from? Don't the resident CD proponents claim thermite?
 
Because Sulfuric acid explains what happens better then thermite. The arguments against thermite make more sense when WTC 7 is included. Thermite is very bright when it burns, which I was reminded of by fireworks. Heat from fires and a corrosive substance explain WTC1, WTC2, And WTC7.

WTC 7 did not sustain significant structural damage and the corrosion was being driven by relatively small fires.

WTC1 and WTC2 were badly weakened by the impact of the planes, The larger fires at WTC1 and WTC2 accelerated and finished off the buildings very quickly.

The original arson prepping was supposed to give enough time to evacuate the buildings. They didn't know about the planes.
 
The investigators NEVER CONTROLLED THE SITE.

The FBI Suits and Giuliani's Goons controlled the Site. You mention one investigator being on the site, when you need to have at least 1 investigator Per Truck in order not to get shell gamed. A lot of people at the site and in those trucks were members of organized crime.

Oh, you say the construction industry in NEW YORK CITY is squeaky clean. They would not have any problems deceiving a lone investigator, or several.

The people (mostly volunteers at first) who were analyzing the steel were kept off site.

This was a criminal enterprise up to their neck in something that they didn't understand.
 
I don't know who started the chasing the Red Herring of thermite. The chemical reactions indicated that sulfur was the principle agent. Sulfur is not usually used in thermite. Why the hell was thermite even brought up?
 
You said the things underground weren't affected by acid. You also state that nobody investigated the steel. So how the hell can you know what's underground and what's not?

Give it up.
 
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