General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Jonnyclueless said:
So I am wrong, but you want to know where I got that from. I will be happy to tell you just as soon as you tell me why it's wrong (actually I will tell you why regardless, but I would like to see your answer first).
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Johnny....Its wrong because its not right. Its hard for me to tell you "why" you are wrong.
 
Pardalis said:
Geez, you're not even trying. :rolleyes:

Doesn't look good for you.
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correct, I'm not even trying to guess why Johnny believes something that is not true. But feel free to have a go yourself if you believe its a worthwhile activity.

He said (regarding all the land west of the Jordan river..)
"It belongs to the Jews and was given to them to begin with."

why is this wrong? well.....its wrong because its not right. It never happened. Are you suggesting that I have to elaborate on that?

As a further illustration, "The Mormons" were given Canada. Thats not actually true but can you tell me why its not true? please give me a detailed answer or you are not really trying.
 
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bikerdruid said:
is that really a serious question??:boggled:....wow.
like any other group of people, most just want to live, raise their families in peace, and live comfortably and safely.
most people are decent people.
so yes, most israeli jews, like their palestians counterparts, are innocents.
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So Pardalis where's the retraction? Your logical proof (bikerdruid doesn't think Israelis are innocent, so therefore he was slyly intimating that he was ok with them being murdered) has fallen apart.
 
I don't see why people complain I am "misrepresenting" them for claiming they support the death of Jews -- when they openly expressed their support and praise for Hamas, which is explicitly and most definitely for the death of Jews, as one of its main goals. If expressing open support for a terrorist organization whose main goal is death to Jews is not supporting the death of Jews, what is? One might as well argue that openly supporting the KKK is not really being a racist.
 
Skeptic said:
I don't see why people complain I am "misrepresenting" them for claiming they support the death of Jews -- when they openly expressed their support and praise for Hamas, which is explicitly and most definitely for the death of Jews, as one of its main goals. If expressing open support for a terrorist organization whose main goal is death to Jews is not supporting the death of Jews, what is? One might as well argue that openly supporting the KKK is not really being a racist.
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Absolutely spot on.

(Of course some people will do anything to avoid facing up to that)
 
Skeptic said:
IOne might as well argue that openly supporting the KKK is not really being a racist.
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I used that very example earlier in this thread. Saying you support Hamas but aren't anti-semitic is like saying you support the KKK but aren't a racist.
 
Skeptic said:
I don't see why people complain I am "misrepresenting" them for claiming they support the death of Jews -- when they openly expressed their support and praise for Hamas, which is explicitly and most definitely for the death of Jews, as one of its main goals. If expressing open support for a terrorist organization whose main goal is death to Jews is not supporting the death of Jews, what is? One might as well argue that openly supporting the KKK is not really being a racist.
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Giz said:
Absolutely spot on.

(Of course some people will do anything to avoid facing up to that)
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WildCat said:
I used that very example earlier in this thread. Saying you support Hamas but aren't anti-semitic is like saying you support the KKK but aren't a racist.
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The problem is you guys characterize "support" too broadly and infer that it means the same kind of support a "card carrying" member of Hamas would have.

You basically take deviations from your conception of Hamas as automatically meaning the polar opposite of your position: you are die-hard opponents, so people like bikerdruid must be die-hard supporters.

So people who say things like: well they are the elected government, or that Israel should maybe consider negotiating a deal with Hamas - are construed as "supporters" of Hamas.

This is you key line, used by all three of you, throughout this thread.

"Why do you 'support' Hamas?"

This then let's you bring out the heavy artillery:

X "supports" Hamas, ergo, X supports everything Hamas has ever done, ergo, X loves it when innocent jews die and hates jews.

This is a perfect example of confirmation bias at work - enabled by simplified reductions of your opponent's views, and perhaps, some sort of underlying desire to be arguing against vile people who support murder.

That last bit is a bit of mind-reading I know, but given the eagerness with which such slander is employed by all three of you I have to assume there's something you enjoy about battling Evil, so you see Evil everywhere. Even in innocents like bikerdruid.
 
bikerdruid said:
perhaps one of the most unbalanced fights since caesar's conquest of gaul.
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You apparently know nothing of the Gallic Wars.

Explain to us how Cast Lead and the Gallic Wars are in any way shape or form similar?
 
a_unique_person said:
Yes, the place where they lived.
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Perhaps their exists, somewhere in the bowels of the tubes, copies of the deed of ownership of said land? Last I knew the Ottoman Empire owned that land, and then the British did.

I have lived in the same apartment for five years or so. When shall I be informing my landlord that I now own his apartment complex? Perhaps I will have some kids, and they'll have kids, and then we'll own it? Is that how it works?
 
bikerdruid said:
there was one battle where caesar lost 50 men, while some 50,000 gauls were killed.
that's fairly unbalanced.
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I'm sure you'll be giving the name of this battle? It was your derail of an analogy after all.
 
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