Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Jrrarglblarg]

Where's Geraldo Rivera?

If Geraldo Rivera is your best example of an investigative journalist . . .

nevermind. I'm sure you're doing your best. Carry on. Don't forget your helmet.

 

[Bell]

Wasn't Geraldo Rivera the only person who, beside Saddam Hussein, the US government wanted out of Iraq?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Yes. Yes he was.

 

[TjW]

Inside job or not, why hasn't 9/11 gotten the investigative scrutiny of TMI or Watergate?

Where's Geraldo Rivera?

Where's Deep Throat? Thousands of people "in on it" -- a conspiracy requiring the cooperation of many more people than were involved in Watergate and TMI combined, and not one wants to cash in on their knowledge?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Wasn't Geraldo Rivera the only person who, beside Saddam Hussein, the US government wanted out of Iraq?

That's because he was getting too close to the truth about 9/11... or something...

 

[EventHorizon]

the Cheney Administration

Where did this idea that Cheney was the mastermind behind everything come from? I understand that George W. Bush is about as sharp as a bowling ball, but I have a hard time picturing a guy who accidentally shot a hunting buddy as some kind of evil genius.

 

[NoahFence]

He was CEO of Halliburton from 1995 to 2000. Apparently this makes him complicit. Somehow.

Don't think about it. Your brain'll bleed.

 

[jaydeehess]

No trigger was pulled. Get it? All the gates and gatekeepers circumvented by 9/11 and no one was fired? No one demoted? No one court martialed? Guy buys insurance on his property and he and 2 family members normally in the building when the plane hit are mia?

Oh I did not say that butts were not covered.

THAT still does not mean that magical incindiary substances exist Clayton. It STILL does not mean that any citizen of the USA knew in advance the details of what what about to occur on Sept10, or 11, and most impostantly it most certainly has no relevence whatsoever as far as evidence that the destruction was caused by anything other than 19 suicide hijackers and 4 aircraft.

[soapbox]Your extrapolation of disparate items shows your political leaning. In fact it metaphorically shows it in upper case, bolded and hilited, flashing red text.
You want, desire, require 9/11/01 to be a vast internal complicated conspiracy in order to vindicate your political worldview. If it isn't then your politics is wrong and you can't handle that.
OTOH I am very much aware of the foibles of the people we put in power both in my country and yours and am aware that power does, shouldn't but does, garner privilage.
SHOULD Bush have been ousted for misleading Congress to go to war in Iraq? Yes , in my estimation he very much should have. SHOULD he have been denied a second term? Yes, but he got in because Kerry was as much of an idiot as GWB but GWB had the advantage of incumbancy.

GAWD, the people I know in Canada could not believe that GWB got a second term. Kerry was an idiot but at least he DID go to Veitnam while GWB did as little as possible that would still allow him to remain stateside.
BTW, perhaps you recall how the MSM has been in reference to his running mate of late.An 11 neighbour remarked "I can't believe they elected that idiot" after his first election.
In Canada we get as much American MSM as Americans do. We get Fox News, we get ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN(not CNN World). Locally on cable I watch stations from Minneapolis, Detroit, and Seattle, Rochester N.Y. and Boston.

Tell me Clayton, why then do Canadians know that GWB was an idiot not fit for office yet Americans voted him in twice? We watch the SAME TV, we see the same political debates, the same election ads, the same PAC attack ads and yet we , as far as I can determine, come to a different consensus than do Americans who VOTED!

Perhaps its not the fault of the big bad monolithic MSM as much as it is the fault of a uniguely American culture.

Others may jump on me for this but your country is slightly paranoid as a culture. OK you were founded by rebelling against England and there was a very real possibility that England could have mounted a counter attack a few years later to take back the colony. Get over it, England is not coming after you anymore.
More recently there was the Cold War. Scary, yes, but what arose and was emmensly popular late in the game? The Movie "Red Dawn" in which the Soviets invade. I LMAO at that premise but oh so many people took it seriously. IMO because of that slight paranoia.

Then there are persons such as you who take that paranoia and turn it inwards against your own political officials. I do not believe that there is another western country in which the gov't is viewed with such mistrust as in the USA.[/soapbox]

 

[jaydeehess]

Now, in addition, somehow half the ME, except Saudi Arabia where most of the alleged 9/11 hijackers came from, has imploded with revolution supported by US led NATO air support.

That would seem to destroy your own conjecture.
IF 9/11 were a vast conspiracy and there were no hijackers of if the hijackers were dupes AND the idea was to garner support to attack ME countries such as Afghanistan(tell me why Israel wanted Afghanistan attacked? It was in anarchy and posed no military threat to anyone let alone countries it does not even border) and Iraq;
then why did this vast and very complicated conspiracy not include any Afghanis or Iraqis?
IIRC you claim that some of the hijackers are still alive, never were on those planes. If they were made up for this conspiracy then it would have just as easy, if not easier, to make up a few Afghanis and Iraqis. Hell throw in a Syrian and an Iraian, we don't like them either.

Such a very simple task but not part of this hugely complicated and mysterious conspiracy you believe in.

 

[RedIbis]

Where did this idea that Cheney was the mastermind behind everything come from? I understand that George W. Bush is about as sharp as a bowling ball, but I have a hard time picturing a guy who accidentally shot a hunting buddy as some kind of evil genius.

Shooting a guy in the face and then getting him to apologize to you might qualify as evil genius.

 

[jaydeehess]

Wasn't Geraldo Rivera the only person who, beside Saddam Hussein, the US government wanted out of Iraq?

Yes. Yes he was.

Yeah something about a little thing about drawing a map and broadcasting "I'm with the {insert unit name} and we are here, and the enemy is here and we are going to....." got the DoD all upset.

 

[jaydeehess]

Shooting a guy in the face and then getting him to apologize to you might qualify as evil genius.

"Please sir , may I have some more?"

Hey, you guys elected these clowns!
You get what you wish for sometimes.

Kinda makes the Saxaphone playboy look a lot better in hindsight doesn't it?

 

[Craig4]

Wellllll,,,,, Al Qada did state that they considered themselves to be at war with the USA so any US citizen aiding and abetting their actions could be considered treasonous. However this would require that DD admit the existance of Al Qada as a separate entity from the the USA gov't.
If OTOH DD considers AQ to be a false flag entity and all conspirators in this to be US citizens then its not a war declared by an outside entity.

Nor is it a group of states trying to separate themselves from the USA.

DD tells us its a plot only to garner support to send US troops into the middle east so that Israel does not have to fight in those countries(or something similar)

So what it then is, is simple(?) mass murder and conspiracy to commit mass murder and a few other nasty charges (lieing to a congressional committee perhaps), but its not treason.

Reminds me of those who wanted to try Julian Assange for treason. He is not a US citizen so NOTHING he does can be considered treason, espionage perhaps but not treason.

An act of air piracy resulting in death is a violation of 18 USC and carries the death penalty. I'd go with that. Acts of terrorism involving the death of a person are also 18 USC violations and carry a death penalty. You also have about 2800 counts of murder in the State of New York which has the death penalty. There are about 200 counts at the Pentagon which would fall under federal jurisdiction I think. At some point you stop needing more reasons to execute someone.

 

[jaydeehess]

An act of air piracy resulting in death is a violation of 18 USC and carries the death penalty. I'd go with that. Acts of terrorism involving the death of a person are also 18 USC violations and carry a death penalty. You also have about 2800 counts of murder in the State of New York which has the death penalty. There are about 200 counts at the Pentagon which would fall under federal jurisdiction I think. At some point you stop needing more reasons to execute someone.

Thanks for the clarification.

No treason in there though, right? That's one charge none of the conspirators of the vast and complicated plot to bring down buildings in Manhattan and Virginia won't have to face....whew!

 

[DeathDart]

This CANNOT be said enough.

A challenging problem, and your arguments are valid. Attacking it as a single monolithic problem is unlikely to be productive.

Broken down into manageable pieces, understanding where the inside narrative would differ from the official narrative. Then examining those points in detail to see which version they support.

They controlled the information so while their narrative will connect one set of dots, ours might use the same dots, or by logical inference make our own dot. The more of their dots we use and the less inferred ones, the better the result.

One of the biggest difficulties is: What is the inside alternate narrative? What alternate narrative will still bind the points from the official story together?

This is why I picked on the NCSTAR Inventory report. I believe the investigators intent was to reconstruct the damaged floors as much as possible.

If the methods of retrieval and examination were as meticulous as we have been led to believe, then they should have succeeded.

Examine the inventory: note how many items were from the impacted floors.

The dismal and incredibly meager results say that the given methods of retrieval and examination were as meticulous as they say is =FALSE. The investigators were attempting, as all good investigators do, to reconstruct the impacted floors. Other forces were obstructing them ,and interfering with them, or they could have done it.

If you argue that the timetable did not allow a thorough investigative job, who set that timetable?
By simple logic if there was not enough time for a thorough investigation, then the investigation was NOT a priority.

The dot representing the investigation results is now a possible dot in the inside narrative.

The alternate narrative around this dot says that they for reasons unknown they sabotaged the investigation of the WTC site. This alternative narrative is only a place holder, it will be affected and modified if it is connected to other dots. By giving it a malicious motive now, this alternate narrative acknowledges that it is assuming malicious intent.

Trying to create an alternative narrative with their dots is not a trivial undertaking.

 

[DeathDart]

(Inside Job View) Less than 2 dozen Americans (other than those who also carried Israeli passports) would need to know in advance of 9-11. Those who knew in advance would need be fanatical individuals, or less fanatical individuals that had a group ideology that would reinforce their determination. A few of the individuals might actually be sociopaths.

When Sociopaths are pushing a shopping cart, they are easy to spot. When they wear a suit and sit behind a big desk it is a much bigger problem.

This operation had hundreds of motivated and ideologically verified Israelis who would have done most of the grunt work and any special preparations.

Too many Dual Citizen American-Israeli individuals were also in positions that they should have been barred from. Dual citizenship to ANY country will usually prevent you from possessing a high enough security clearance to hold the positions that they held.

You can probably find 2 dozen sociopaths in any large city in America. AND we are talking mostly about politicians here.

 

[DeathDart]

Using 100's of Americans the Conspiracy would not have lasted a year.

Preparations to screw up the Intelligence Agencies started years earlier.
A single individual can use time as a lever to do a lot of damage.

Romans put a lot a work in before the battle. Victory is 90% sweat and 10% blood.

 

[000063]

He's a truther. Would you expect anything else?

Who said I did?

Where's Deep Throat? Thousands of people "in on it" -- a conspiracy requiring the cooperation of many more people than were involved in Watergate and TMI combined, and not one wants to cash in on their knowledge?

The standard Truther response is to

1. Ignore it.
2. Produce a single "witness" with an inconsistent or outright false story which has nothing to do with whistleblowing.
3. Make something up and change the subject as fast as possible.

Common sense says you are correct.

So why didn't the MSM make sure he was drummed out?

I love how you've carefully phrased your post to avoid making a definite statement.

Using 100's of Americans the Conspiracy would not have lasted a year.

The conspiracy would not have involved just Americans. It would've involved people from the Middle East, including, likely, an Israeli or two. We know for a fact that it did in the OS, so why are you claiming someone said Americans only?

(Inside Job View)

Pick a theory, one theory, and stick to it.

Less than 2 dozen Americans (other than those who also carried Israeli passports) would need to know in advance of 9-11. Those who knew in advance would need be fanatical individuals, or less fanatical individuals that had a group ideology that would reinforce their determination. A few of the individuals might actually be sociopaths.

Unsupported assertion.

When Sociopaths are pushing a shopping cart, they are easy to spot. When they wear a suit and sit behind a big desk it is a much bigger problem.

If there's anything watching cop shows has taught me, it's that you can't tell a nutjob on sight.

This operation had hundreds of motivated and ideologically verified Israelis who would have done most of the grunt work and any special preparations.

Unsupported speculation.

Too many Dual Citizen American-Israeli individuals were also in positions that they should have been barred from.

Based on whose assessment or policy? Name ten of these Dual Citizens. Just ten.

Dual citizenship to ANY country will usually prevent you from possessing a high enough security clearance to hold the positions that they held.

Is this a matter of policy, or an opinion?

 

[twinstead]

(Inside Job View) Less than 2 dozen Americans (other than those who also carried Israeli passports) would need to know in advance of 9-11. Those who knew in advance would need be fanatical individuals, or less fanatical individuals that had a group ideology that would reinforce their determination. A few of the individuals might actually be sociopaths.

When Sociopaths are pushing a shopping cart, they are easy to spot. When they wear a suit and sit behind a big desk it is a much bigger problem.

This operation had hundreds of motivated and ideologically verified Israelis who would have done most of the grunt work and any special preparations.

Too many Dual Citizen American-Israeli individuals were also in positions that they should have been barred from. Dual citizenship to ANY country will usually prevent you from possessing a high enough security clearance to hold the positions that they held.

You can probably find 2 dozen sociopaths in any large city in America. AND we are talking mostly about politicians here.

Yea. Too many evil Joooooooooooos. No wonder they were able to pull it off. Jews are EVIL. EVIL I say!!

Your ideas are moronic

 

[000063]

Red herring. What affirmative evidence is there that the Jooos were involved in 9/11? You're a MIHOP; what was their involvement in the planning and execution?