Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Hopefully you're also posting your critiques directly on the blog whereupon resides "The Machine" (whoever that is).

Seems to me that it would be much more effective and useful to confront bogus claims at their source.

Unfortunately I was told Thanks for stopping by the last time I was there and it was made clear I was not welcome. I did start with my first post at Michael's PMF but (other than Michael) did not get a response. I felt it would be better to continue here. I don't believe the Machine posts on Michael's PMF in any case (since the split).
 
My spouse watched every minute of this thing and was convinced that Casey was innocent. I lost a bet as a result. Excellent representation.

I can see reasonable doubt, but "convinced of innocence"? Was there anything in particular that specifically led your spouse to be so convinced?
 
She can get up to one year for each count. That gives 4 years together in county jail.

But, from what I've heard on WFTV, she'll probably walk out free on Thursday. She served 3+ years and apparently she behaved good in jail.

I think they meant it didn't carry a mandatory minimum sentence like a felony would. The maximum she can get for a misdemeanor is a year on each count but jail time is fairly uncommon for these sorts of offences.
 
I can see reasonable doubt, but "convinced of innocence"? Was there anything in particular that specifically led your spouse to be so convinced?

Lack of real evidence.

Suspicion of other family members.

DA is a dweeb (not my word).

Personally I thought the prosecution of this case left a lot to be desired. I had a few doubts as well and I am not certain I would have voted for guilt.
 
A reply from Twitter:

Amanda Knox is innocent.Casey Anthony is guilty. Amanda was found guilty and Anthony will go free. Justice is not always.

Seems as if many think that Amanda is the most innocent of the innocent. And yet she's in jail.

I just wonder how people that inept in their assessment of people can survive. Seems like guilters would surround themselves with a bad spouse, bad lawyers, and devious friends. They would probably even vote for the most deceptive candidate.
 
one problem in interpreting mixtures

On a side note. Casey Anthony has been found not guilty.
Poppy1016,

She was also acquitted of aggravated manslaughter. I was bothered by her Googling information on chloroform. That might have been enough for me to convict, but I have not thought about the case very much and would not want to be held to an offhand opinion.

Let me give you a made-up example for locus A to show some of the problems in interpreting mixtures, assuming that some small peaks are present at 10-20% of the intensity of large peaks. If M has repeats of 14 and 18 and R has repeats of 18 and 20, suppose you see two large peaks at 14 and 18 and one small peak at 20. Is the DNA of R present? The results allow for at least three possibilities. R's DNA is present; DNA from a person with repeats of 14 and 20 is present, or a person who is homozygous for 20 is present. (The numbers above refer to the number of short tandem repeats, STRs.) And all of this discussion assumes that the peak at 20 is even a real peak and not a stutter or another type of artifact.
 
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[Anthony] was also acquitted of aggravated manslaughter. I was bothered by her Googling information on chloroform. That might have been enough for me to convict, but I have not thought about the case very much and would not want to be held to an offhand opinion.

halides1,

I certainly don't want this thread to veer off topic, but my understanding gleaned from a few minutes of media exposure is that there was evidence from Facebook postings that provided an alternative innocent explanation for the chloroform searches.
 
Unfortunately I was told Thanks for stopping by the last time I was there and it was made clear I was not welcome. I did start with my first post at Michael's PMF but (other than Michael) did not get a response. I felt it would be better to continue here. I don't believe the Machine posts on Michael's PMF in any case (since the split).

I wasn't even aware of any split. Any information on the reason?
 
A reply from Twitter:

Seems as if many think that Amanda is the most innocent of the innocent. And yet she's in jail.

I just wonder how people that inept in their assessment of people can survive. Seems like guilters would surround themselves with a bad spouse, bad lawyers, and devious friends. They would probably even vote for the most deceptive candidate.

Or Sarah Palin.
 
Let's look at another one shall we:



Again, The Machine is being a bit mendacious with his proof of falsity here. As evidence that Mignini did not say it she presents a quote from someone that did say it. This does not mean that Mignini didn't say it as well. The exact quote from Rolling Stone:



It would seem the evidence that this is a false claim by Rolling Stone would exist in the complete closing statement of Dr. Mignini (which is not provided). My conclusion is that this claim from The Machine is pretty silly and amounts to nothing.


The Machine is being a bit of an...... idiot with this claim (and most of his/her other spurious "claims" as well).

These two articles suggest that Mignini referred directly to Knox as a "luciferina" (she-devil) during the first trial:


Daily Mail, December 6th 2009:

To prosecutor Dr Giuliano Mignini she (Knox) was ‘Luciferina – the She-Devil’. Privately, some called her ‘The Bitch’, and Knox and Sollecito together ‘the Cretins’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rge-Hillary-Clinton-launch-investigation.html



The Times, December 6th 2009:


Was she “an unscrupulous and manipulative she-devil”, as alleged by the prosecution....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6945967.ece


So I'm sure Mignini is bound to be taking action against the Daily Mail and The Times for linking him with the "she-devil" accusation. Maybe he, the Perugia police and Lumumba can roll this in with their libel action over the other Mail article in which Lumumba's directly quoted as being the victim of racial, physical and psychological abuse by the "crack" Perugia flying squad......


PS: That second article is also notable for a quote from a certain Peggy Ganong ("Italian-speaking", apparently....), which makes interesting reading:

Peggy Ganong, an Italian-speaking Seattle blogger who followed the case closely, said: “The implication was that Italian forensics are inferior to American forensics, and I think that’s just not true. The forensic evidence was a lot stronger than her supporters said.”

:D
 
Next:

False Claim 8: Amanda Knox refused to leave Perugia



The Machine is not correct on this one. The cops were concerned that Amanda would leave the country when her Mom arrived. In the Rolling Stone article it lists several quotes from Amanda regarding this that contradict The Machine:





The cops may have asked her to stick around but I am aware of nothing that would have prevented her from leaving until she became a suspect.


You're correct. Knox was asked to stay in the country in order to assist the inquiry, but could not have been forced to stay. The prosecutors would have had to have obtained a court order if they had wanted to force Knox to stay - and for that they would have needed to show probable cause.

So the earliest that the prosecutors could possibly have prevented Knox from leaving Italy was November 5th 2007. She could have got on a plane on any day between the 2nd and the 5th.
 
Casey Anthony has been found not guilty - now, if the Italian court will convict Amanda Knox, then I will have some serious issues with finding the right words to explain how it happend. The Anthony case was pretty obvious, still there was no direct evidence suggesting she killed her daughter.

Anyone know how many years she'll get for lying to the police?

My guess - best for CA - out on time served
worst for CA - 1 - 2 years of additional time with likely early out on probation/parole for good behavior.
 
Poppy1016,

She was also acquitted of aggravated manslaughter. I was bothered by her Googling information on chloroform. That might have been enough for me to convict, but I have not thought about the case very much and would not want to be held to an offhand opinion.

Let me give you a made-up example for locus A to show some of the problems in interpreting mixtures, assuming that some small peaks are present at 10-20% of the intensity of large peaks. If M has repeats of 14 and 18 and R has repeats of 18 and 20, suppose you see two large peaks at 14 and 18 and one small peak at 20. Is the DNA of R present? The results allow for at least three possibilities. R's DNA is present; DNA from a person with repeats of 14 and 20 is present, or a person who is homozygous for 20 is present. (The numbers above refer to the number of short tandem repeats, STRs.) And all of this discussion assumes that the peak at 20 is even a real peak and not a stutter or another type of artifact.


I see that "Florida Child-death File" is coming out with some high-end idiocy about the Anthony case. The simple fact would appear to be that the jury didn't believe that it had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony had any direct involvement whatsoever in her daughter's death. This is clearly seen in the acquittals on both the murder and the manslaughter charges.

Some idiots (including a paralegal) are trying to suggest that the acquittal might have happened because jurors were reluctant to send Casey Anthony to the electric chair (or lethal injection). But that's a ridiculous claim: firstly, the jury had the option of manslaughter, and secondly there is a sentencing phase in the US following the verdict (different from UK courts where in a murder conviction the judge announces the sentence directly after the conviction).

Therefore, the jury could easily have convicted of Murder 1, then asked the judge for compassion in sentencing and recommended life without parole. Of course, the judge could disregard the jury's recommendation and impose the death penalty, but AFAIK such an override is unusual, and also the jurors could feel absolved even if their recommendation was overruled.

A Canadian idiot goes further, and tries to make the ludicrous claim that the jurors all thought Anthony was guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but acquitted as some sort of demonstration against capital punishment. He then goes on to boldly state that Anthony is as guilty as hell, and that she's "got away with murder". What a damn idiot.

And that is the end of my comments on the Casey Anthony case. :)
 
Unfortunately I was told Thanks for stopping by the last time I was there and it was made clear I was not welcome. I did start with my first post at Michael's PMF but (other than Michael) did not get a response. I felt it would be better to continue here. I don't believe the Machine posts on Michael's PMF in any case (since the split).

That you were ever permitted to post on the anti-Knox sites was surprising in some way. And could only ever have been the exception that proved the rule that they are a cloistered sect (well, apparently two sects now) that does not permit critical thinking among the flock.

Actually my post really was a roundabout way to ask if your objectivity was no longer being tolerated by the fanatics. And, thanking you for the reply, I see it isn't.

Not a surprise, considering the recent developments in the case.
 
...Some idiots (including a paralegal) are trying to suggest that the acquittal might have happened because jurors were reluctant to send Casey Anthony to the electric chair (or lethal injection). But that's a ridiculous...

I agree with the paralegal. It's very possible the jury would have been effected by having the death penalty on the table. In spite of the fact that, technically, they had the option of finding her guilty of a lesser charge that wouldn't qualify for it.

Psychologically, the very existence of the death penalty in the case could certainly have made the jurors more cautious and skeptical about ALL the charges.

In my mind, it's entirely possible that, had she only been charged with manslaughter to begin with, that she might have been found guilty of that by this very same jury.

I'd like to think, also, considering the leaps of faith required to get there, that it would have been less likely that Amanda Knox would have been found guilty if the death penalty had been in play there.

The potential of the death penalty in any case weighs heavily in all sorts of different ways that may not always be readily apparent at first blush.
 
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I see that "Florida Child-death File" is coming out with some high-end idiocy about the Anthony case. The simple fact would appear to be that the jury didn't believe that it had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony had any direct involvement whatsoever in her daughter's death. This is clearly seen in the acquittals on both the murder and the manslaughter charges.

Some idiots (including a paralegal) are trying to suggest that the acquittal might have happened because jurors were reluctant to send Casey Anthony to the electric chair (or lethal injection). But that's a ridiculous claim: firstly, the jury had the option of manslaughter, and secondly there is a sentencing phase in the US following the verdict (different from UK courts where in a murder conviction the judge announces the sentence directly after the conviction).

Therefore, the jury could easily have convicted of Murder 1, then asked the judge for compassion in sentencing and recommended life without parole. Of course, the judge could disregard the jury's recommendation and impose the death penalty, but AFAIK such an override is unusual, and also the jurors could feel absolved even if their recommendation was overruled.

A Canadian idiot goes further, and tries to make the ludicrous claim that the jurors all thought Anthony was guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but acquitted as some sort of demonstration against capital punishment. He then goes on to boldly state that Anthony is as guilty as hell, and that she's "got away with murder". What a damn idiot.

And that is the end of my comments on the Casey Anthony case. :)

That claim about anti-death penalty doesn't make any sense being that the jury had the option of felony murder, which I don't believe would call for the death penalty (though I'm not totally familiar with Florida's criminal statutes). They also had the option of manslaughter (as you've pointed out).

I have also looked at True Justice and find the analysis amusing. The jurors in the Anthony case were subject to Voir Dire and were also sequestered.

Much has been made about the sequestration of jurors and how it is not even common in the US. I believe this is slightly misleading. Even jurors who are not sequestered in the US are not allowed to discuss the case with fellow jurors during the case, or read about their case in newspapers, do their own research, etc. This is reversable error. There is plenty of case law about it, most notably jurors who were researching their case on google which lead to mistrials. People can make up their own minds which they prefer.
 
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The Machine is being a bit of an...... idiot with this claim (and most of his/her other spurious "claims" as well).

These two articles suggest that Mignini referred directly to Knox as a "luciferina" (she-devil) during the first trial:


Daily Mail, December 6th 2009:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rge-Hillary-Clinton-launch-investigation.html



The Times, December 6th 2009:




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6945967.ece


So I'm sure Mignini is bound to be taking action against the Daily Mail and The Times for linking him with the "she-devil" accusation. Maybe he, the Perugia police and Lumumba can roll this in with their libel action over the other Mail article in which Lumumba's directly quoted as being the victim of racial, physical and psychological abuse by the "crack" Perugia flying squad......


PS: That second article is also notable for a quote from a certain Peggy Ganong ("Italian-speaking", apparently....), which makes interesting reading:



:D

Nice.

Thank you.
 
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