Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[leftysergeant]

I think each of the three WTC buildings that collapsed and their associated "99" day fires were about an acre.

I will not dispute that point. I would, however, like to take this opportunity, since you raised the point, to educate you on the evolution of what those of us with a bleeding clue call "ground fires."These are the most difficult of the "natural cover" fires to totally extinguish. Fire gets down into stuff like tree roots, buried leaf mulm, coal seams, buried garbage or office supplies layered between concrete slabs and rubble out of the reach of extinguishing hose streams.

But let us continue with the comparison to fires in the Okeffenokee. what you got here is a bunch of water sitting on top of a pile of sphagnum moss and various leaves and grasses that have piled up over the period between the maximum expansion of the Pleistocene ice sheets and today and which have, at intervals, been covered with non-flammable, perhaps even FIRE-PROOF clays. You scrape the leaf ,ulm off the top of the m,ineral earth, you drown any fires that are burning in rotten stumps on the surface, then walk away, and about an hour, maybe a week later, fire will have spread from a point below where your water reached and travelled under your fire line to erupt from the dead stump of another tree on the other side of your fire line.

So, in total, no, I do not see anything odd about the lingering fires.

 

[triforcharity]

I think each of the three WTC buildings that collapsed and their associated "99" day fires were about an acre.

More like 16 acres, and many many feet deep. Most of which was inaccessable to firefighters.

Your conclusion is moronic and based on personal ignorance.

 

[000063]

"99" day fires

Why the quotation marks? Either the OS lied about the fires lasting for 99 days, or it's a piece of evidence that's actually in support of your CD claim, or it isn't in support of your point. Which is it?

This question is entirely rhetorical, of course. I'm not expecting an answer.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I'd imagine Clayton Moore would take a fire hose and point it at the center of the flames and then wonder why the fire didn't go out...

Clayton, go learn something about fire and firefighting. Pay attention when they are talking about the triangle and what you need to do in order to break it and put the fire out. Then learn what reflash is and why it is always a concern in any major (and sometimes a minor) fire. Maybe then you'll understand why the fires at ground zero were so difficult to put out.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I'd imagine Clayton Moore would take a fire hose and point it at the center of the flames and then wonder why the fire didn't go out...

Clayton, go learn something about fire and firefighting. Pay attention when they are talking about the triangle and what you need to do in order to break it and put the fire out. Then learn what reflash is and why it is always a concern in any major (and sometimes a minor) fire. Maybe then you'll understand why the fires at ground zero were so difficult to put out.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc_fires_911.html

WTC Fires All But Defeated - December 19, 2001

Firefighters have extinguished almost all but the last remnants of underground fires that have burned at the World Trade Center site for more than three months since the Sept. 11 terrorist attack. The fires that began with the Sept. 11 attacks had been strong enough that firetrucks had to spray a nearly constant jet of water on them. At times, the flames slowed the work of clearing the site. "You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake." [CBS News]

Thermite induced collapses would explain the above:
Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen, and does not require any external source such as air. Consequently, it cannot be smothered and may ignite in any environment, given sufficient initial heat. It will burn just as well while underwater, for example, and cannot even be extinguished with water, as water sprayed on a thermite reaction will instantly be boiled into steam. [Answers.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Military_uses

A mixture of thermite and sulfur produces thermate which lowers the melting point of the iron it contacts when reacting by forming a eutectic system. This is useful in cutting through steel.

Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen and does not require any external source of air.Consequently, it cannot be smothered and may ignite in any environment, given sufficient initial heat. It will burn well while wet and cannot be easily extinguished with water, although enough water will remove heat and stop the reaction. Small amounts of water will boil before reaching the reaction. Although thermite is used for welding underwater, in a haphazard ignition of thermite underwater, the molten iron produced will extract oxygen from water and generate hydrogen gas in a single-replacement reaction. This gas may, in turn, burn by combining with oxygen in the air.

A classic military use for thermite is disabling artillery pieces, and it has been used commonly for this purpose since World War II, (like at Pointe du Hoc). Thermite can permanently disable artillery pieces without the use of explosive charges and therefore can be used when silence is necessary to an operation. There are several ways to do this. By far the most destructive method is to weld the weapon shut by inserting one or more armed thermite grenades into the breech and then quickly closing it. This makes the weapon impossible to load. An alternative method is to insert an armed thermite grenade down the muzzle of the artillery piece, fouling the barrel. This makes the piece very dangerous to fire. Yet another method is to use thermite to weld the traversing and elevation mechanism of the weapon, making it impossible to aim properly.

 

[NoahFence]

Thermite induced collapses would explain the above:
Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen, and does not require any external source such as air. Consequently, it cannot be smothered and may ignite in any environment, given sufficient initial heat. It will burn just as well while underwater, for example, and cannot even be extinguished with water, as water sprayed on a thermite reaction will instantly be boiled into steam. [Answers.com]

Just gut-bustingly, vomit enducing, head shaking, galactic stupidity.
This is the reason nobody takes truthers seriously.

Thermite reactions last on the order of SECONDS. Not days. Not weeks. NOT MONTHS!

99 continuous days of thermite reacting? THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE!! How many hundreds of thousands of TONS of that stuff would you need to keep a reaction going for over THREE MONTHS? Dear GOD you've said some stupid stuff on here but that might take the cake.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Just gut-bustingly, vomit enducing, head shaking, galactic stupidity.
This is the reason nobody takes truthers seriously.

Thermite reactions last on the order of SECONDS. Not days. Not weeks. NOT MONTHS!

99 continuous days of thermite reacting? THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE!! How many hundreds of thousands of TONS of that stuff would you need to keep a reaction going for over THREE MONTHS? Dear GOD you've said some stupid stuff on here but that might take the cake.

It's called access to ALL the Military's science by the clout to open the doors to Military science. The same clout that stole weapons grade anthrax undetected.

 

[NoahFence]

All the military's science can't install hundreds of thousands of tons of thermite in to three of the busiest office buildings in the busiest city in the world without anybody noticing.


Sorry man. Get a new hobby. You really aren't any good at this one.

 

[leftysergeant]

It's called access to ALL the Military's science by the clout to open the doors to Military science. The same clout that stole weapons grade anthrax undetected.

If we had anything capable of causing a fire to burn for weeks where it shouldn't, we wouldn't need nukes.

You need to demonstrate that there is any scientific possibility to construct a weapon with the properties you cite.

Unicorn manure is in greater supply.

 

[Clayton Moore]

If we had anything capable of causing a fire to burn for weeks where it shouldn't, we wouldn't need nukes.

You need to demonstrate that there is any scientific possibility to construct a weapon with the properties you cite.

Unicorn manure is in greater supply.

I don't need to do anything. Do you understand the depth of science needed build an atomic bomb in the 40s, to reach the moon 40 years ago without a hint of the computer power today's science has access to? I guess not.

 

[TJM]

I don't need to do anything. Do you understand the depth of science needed build an atomic bomb in the 40s, to reach the moon 40 years ago without a hint of the computer power today's science has access to? I guess not.

Yeah, there probably a lot of computers burning in the pile. Other than that, what's your point?

 

[tsig]

It's called access to ALL the Military's science by the clout to open the doors to Military science. The same clout that stole weapons grade anthrax undetected.

Military science is an oxymoron.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Congratulations! You've figured it all out!!!


No wait, you haven't. You think that science has developed something that defies well understood physical laws that we have known for over a century. The scientific theories behind the atomic bomb were publicly known decades before the bomb itself was built. Nobody else built them because the first one (because of infrastructure costs alone) cost billions in 1940 dollars and involved hundreds of thousands of man hours and nobody wanted to put in that much of an investment for something that was theoretical. During the war, everything possible was tried at great sacrifice to the needs and comforts of the country as a whole.

There have been no major changes or revolutionary discoveries regarding explosives or incendiaries in a very long time, there have only been variations of a theme and none of those variations involve magical silent explosives or tiny incendiaries that burn for months on end. I guess we can add explosives and incendiaries to the ever growing list of things that you have no clue about.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Congratulations! You've figured it all out!!!


No wait, you haven't. You think that science has developed something that defies well understood physical laws that we have known for over a century. The scientific theories behind the atomic bomb were publicly known decades before the bomb itself was built. Nobody else built them because the first one (because of infrastructure costs alone) cost billions in 1940 dollars and involved hundreds of thousands of man hours and nobody wanted to put in that much of an investment for something that was theoretical. During the war, everything possible was tried at great sacrifice to the needs and comforts of the country as a whole.

There have been no major changes or revolutionary discoveries regarding explosives or incendiaries in a very long time, there have only been variations of a theme and none of those variations involve magical silent explosives or tiny incendiaries that burn for months on end. I guess we can add explosives and incendiaries to the ever growing list of things that you have no clue about.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Travis]

And what do you find funny about that?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

And what do you find funny about that?

I just figured it's trutherese for "I got nothin'".

 

[Oystein]

And what do you find funny about that?

He thinks it's funny that we don't believe in magic like he does. He thinks the military scientists are gods who defy the fundamental laws of this universe (conservation of energy, laws of thermodynamics), and anybody who does not believe the same creed ought to be laughed at.

 

[Sunstealer]

A mixture of thermite and sulfur produces thermate which lowers the melting point of the iron it contacts when reacting by forming a eutectic system. This is useful in cutting through steel.

I'll tell you now - that is wrong. That has been put into wiki by a truther. I'd like to see a citation for this from a scientific paper.

I love the way that clayton thinks thermite is some sort of wonder weapon. This stuff was used in WW1. http://www.freepyroinfo.com/Pyrotec...istry_Military_Explosives_Must_Have_Ebook.pdf

Clayton - please find a video of thermite burning for more than 20 minutes.

He doesn't realise that this is impossible let alone a 99 day thermite fire - lol.

 

[Sunstealer]

Yep - thought so. The wiki history reveals the poster of that incorrect information is citing this crap http://www.journalof911studies.com/...rldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf

Anyone able to change the wiki article?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Yep - thought so. The wiki history reveals the poster of that incorrect information is citing this crap http://www.journalof911studies.com/...rldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf

Anyone able to change the wiki article?

I thought that the point of Wiki was that anyone can change it, that's what makes is so unreliable as a primary source. It's usually a good starting point but that's about it as far as I'm concerned.

I made some changes to it a few years back and I don't recall any onerous requirements to be able to do it. Why not give it a shot yourself?