Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[platonov]

Really!

One of my first posts to Some Alibi:

"The knife and the clasp come across more as evidence against the prosecution than either of the two in jail"

In my first post I worded it more conservatively, but I basically meant the same thing. I put it something to the effect of: 'Those two might be evidence of something, but a smoking gun tying them to the murder site they are not.'

You see, while I rolled my eyes and scrolled past all the posts regarding whether athletic kid like Rudy could climb into that window, (although I did enjoy 'two girls one bra') I came across this at some point during the debate, probably one of Halides posts, or perhaps I googled it I don't recall. Considering the current status of the debate you might find it very interesting. Or maybe not. Perhaps like me you'll find it an incitement to violent self-mutilation with dangers of incipient suicide, however it was very useful for trying to figure out what was being contended about Stefanoni's work.

The 'Really' was slightly ironic Kaosium - you were here at the time making even more ridiculous arguments but on different subjects.


Why dont you quote the rest of that post of yours so we can see exactly how you 'anticipated' the 'expert report' on the bra clasp and knife

 

[Poppy1016]

Kind of rude not replying, but oh well. Perhaps you feel that I don't rate a reply. That's ok !

 

[Kaosium]

The 'Really' was slightly ironic Kaosium - you were here at the time making even more ridiculous arguments but on different subjects.

I take that as a high compliment, Platonov! I just reverse polarity on nearly everything you say, then it all makes sense!

Why dont you quote the rest of that post of yours so we can see exactly how you 'anticipated' the 'expert report' on the bra clasp and knife

Oh, yes, I use multiple sources for just about everything. Do you remember saying to me as I entered the debate not to use any one site for information about the case? I've often wondered just what sites do you rely on for your information?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Lessons learned, part 2

I think any parent regardless of which side of the “pond” they live would be concerned with a brutal senseless murder of a student; of course you are entitled to your own opinion.

CoulsdonUK,

I agree that all parents should be concerned. However there is another lesson that I try to impart to my advisees who study abroad: Do not speak with the police unless your attorney is present, even if you have done nothing wrong. If they ask you to be helpful, tell them that you can help them the most with an attorney present.

 

[Antony]

It most certainly was and mentioned more than once I think

Around the same time that several posters claimed that unless 'we' or 'they' could explain exactly how RS cut off the bra then it didnt count !!

This thread contains at least 14* of the 20 dumbest arguments I have ever heard - I dont always remember the authors but the 'ideas' are hard to forget !

* Note - numbers may be made up.

ETA Petty sure Antony argued for this 'idea'

I did nothing of the sort, nor do I remember reading it from another poster. The bra clasp was never credible evidence for other reasons.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Hi Platonov,
I was wondering if the new DNA evidence has given you even the slightest amount of doubt. I know we have to wait until it all plays out in court, but the report seems pretty strong on the surface.

I'll reply Poppy, because Platonov never will. No one who believes in guilt is going to give an inch on this one; they will simply twist it to fit the ever-so-noble *In Memory of Meredith* agenda. What, I wonder, would Meredith have to say to those people who spew empty accusations, malicious name-calling, and vicious hostility toward Amanda, Rafaelle, their families and supporters in the name of Meredith? I can only imagine how she would have felt about these people as everyone knows she was much too honorable to have ever wished for this type of legacy.

 

[platonov]

..........

Originally Posted by platonov

Why dont you quote the rest of that post of yours so we can see exactly how you 'anticipated' the 'expert report' on the bra clasp and knife

Oh, yes, I use multiple sources for just about everything. Do you remember saying to me as I entered the debate not to use any one site for information about the case? I've often wondered just what sites do you rely on for your information?

The distinction between 'word salad' and non sequitur is often a subtle one.

Too subtle for me in this instance.

 

[platonov]

I did nothing of the sort, nor do I remember reading it from another poster. The bra clasp was never credible evidence for other reasons.

False - Do you want the link ?

 

[platonov]

Thank you for the reply !

I posted on this some days ago - even before the report was leaked - and again after ?

In a nutshell - his* chances have moved closer to slim than none, relative to where they were.
She's gone.

* Who knows - maybe the fix is in

 

[RWVBWL]

Changed you opinion how ?

Werent you one of the many posters who claimed or insinuated previously that [among many many other things] the cops planted the evidence on the clasp and knife.

So now its Stefanoni not the cops - Like all good CT's it can be amended as necessary without changing the overall effect.
But on this 'Expert report' - funny how those who railed against 'arguments from authority' suddenly embrace an 'expert opinion' when it seems to suit their argument - do you have an opinion on whether it confirms that RS' profile is on the clasp.

Hi there Platonov,
Why can't a good CT be amended as necessary without changing the overall effect?

Mignini did the same in his original theory when he decided, opps, make that when he was forced to substitiue 1 black guy for another black guy, without changing the overall effect.

Amanda Knox did it! It doesn't matter who the other satanic ritual members are/orgy members are, I can just substitute 'em. Amanda Knox did it!

This was what 1st caught me eye back in '07 that something was fishy in Perugia. You know something, Platonov? I could have actually believed that Amanda, trying to help hook up her boss Patrick with her room mate, was involved in Meredith's murder. Say that she had brought him over to her pad. But things had gotten outta hand, and Amanda afterwards, being an accessory to murder because she had brought Patrick over, then helped cover the murder that she heard Patrick commit while covering her ears in the kitchen.

I could have believed this because in a former life I was the boss at a surfshop that I ran and I hung out often with a lot of my younger employees after work. And guess what? I even hooked up with some of their female friends, So I thought maybe it might have happened in Perugia.

Alas, the original story changed and Rudy Guede, a guy Amanda barely knew, was simply substituted for Patrick Lumumba, her boss, without changing the overall effect in Mignini's theory. Amanda Knox did it.

What else explains Mignini appealing her conviction to add more years onto her prison sentence, while not appealing Rudy Guede's sentence reduction before that automatic fast track reduction occurred?

So be nice Platonov.
RoseMontague can ammend her viewpoint without changing the overall effect. Mignini certainly did...

Amanda Knox did it.

 

[Antony]

False - Do you want the link ?

If you have a link why is it necessary to ask if I want to see it?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Can someone help me out? I thought that court appointed experts report was due to be presented on Monday, 25th July, if so does this mean the contents were leaked to the media? Sorry if this has already been covered.

 

[HumanityBlues]

I posted on this some days ago - even before the report was leaked - and again after ?

In a nutshell - his* chances have moved closer to slim than none, relative to where they were.
She's gone.

* Who knows - maybe the fix is in

Like a chicken with it's head cut off.

 

[platonov]

If you have a link why is it necessary to ask if I want to see it?

I am giving you a chance to withdraw

 

[platonov]

Hi there Platonov,
Why can't a good CT be amended as necessary without changing the overall effect?

Mignini did the same in his original theory when he decided, opps, make that when he was forced to substitiue 1 black guy for another black guy, without changing the overall effect.

Amanda Knox did it! It doesn't matter who the other satanic ritual members are/orgy members are, I can just substitute 'em. Amanda Knox did it!

This was what 1st caught me eye back in '07 that something was fishy in Perugia. You know something, Platonov? I could have actually believed that Amanda, trying to help hook up her boss Patrick with her room mate, was involved in Meredith's murder. Say that she had brought him over to her pad. But things had gotten outta hand, and Amanda afterwards, being an accessory to murder because she had brought Patrick over, then helped cover the murder that she heard Patrick commit while covering her ears in the kitchen.

I could have believed this because in a former life I was the boss at a surfshop that I ran and I hung out often with a lot of my younger employees after work. And guess what? I even hooked up with some of their female friends, So I thought maybe it might have happened in Perugia.

Alas, the original story changed and Rudy Guede, a guy Amanda barely knew, was simply substituted for Patrick Lumumba, her boss, without changing the overall effect in Mignini's theory. Amanda Knox did it.

What else explains Mignini appealing her conviction to add more years onto her prison sentence, while not appealing Rudy Guede's sentence reduction before that automatic fast track reduction occurred?

So be nice Platonov.
RoseMontague can ammend her viewpoint without changing the overall effect. Mignini certainly did...

Amanda Knox did it.

??????????????

Like all good CT's it can be amended as necessary without changing the overall effect.

 

[komponisto]

Il Giornale: In America, Amanda Would Be Free

Since the PMF crowd have been talking about DSK, they might appreciate this piece from Il Giornale:

In America, Amanda Would Be Free

by Andrea Acquarone

Les jeux sont faits. [French: "The chips are down."] The ball rolls slowly on the wheel of our strange justice system; the dealer has no face, and could be wearing a uniform or a toga. But what comes out is "zero". Everyone loses: those who are supposed to distinguish between the guilty and the innocent; those who are supposed to protect civil society [il civile consorzio]; and those whose duty it is to punish, albeit while rehabilitating.

The parallel between us and the Americans is the length of an ocean. The incomparable differences -- and especially their consequences -- are striking. And yet [the parallel] is there.

What could link Amanda Knox, the Seattle student who ended up in Italian-style galleys on charges of killing her roommate in Perugia, and the powerul and infamous Dominique Strauss-Kahn, arrested in the U.S. on charges of carnal violence? Here is the track [anello] that divides [us] more than continents: time and manner of investigations. And of answers. And of freedom.

The "sum of justice" probably lies here. The politician who could have beaten Sarkozy is let out in a month and a half; New York police and judges retreat and admit error in the face of the evidence. Amanda, the Beatles-singing blond, remains in her cell, notwithstanding the collapse of the evidence in her case. And with her, her ex-boyfriend Raffaele. Something is wrong, and it doesn't have anything to do with Anglo-Saxon law or ius romano. The problem lies in the efficiency of institutions, of men, of a lazy and elephantine bureaucracy.

Greg Hampikian, one of the most famous American DNA experts, director of the Idaho Innocence Project (IIP) of Boise [State] University, which offers free assistance in difficult and controversial cases to try to avoid miscarriages of justice, explained the other day: "We're facing some big changes in the trial of Knox and Sollecito. The case has fallen apart." Which he had already said in times less suspect. The impression that our homegrown investigators -- the Scientific Police that was said to be first in the world -- have made is none too good.

The experts, appointed by the Perugia Corte d'Assise d'Appello for the umpteenth study of that knife and that bra clasp that nailed Foxy and Lele, have reviewed the analysis. The DNA of Amanda was isolated on the former -- more precisely on the handle that of Meredith (the victim), on the blade that of Amanda [sic!]; on the corsage [corpetto, evidently a euphemism for "bra"], however, the Scientifics had found the Y-chromosome of Raffaele Sollecito mixed with the DNA of Meredith Kercher. It was all wrong, but it was enough for the Italian justice system to construct a castle of accusations.

Pity that now, three years out, we discover that it wasn't so. According to the experts from the forensic science institute of Rome's Sapienza [University], the police work "was not reliable", and the items could have been contaminated. On the blade, the biological traces were too low to provide certain data. As for the DNA on Mez's bra, "there was an erroneous interpretation of the chromosome". And a final blow to the investigation: our detectives apparently didn't follow the recommendations of the international scientific community regarding the treatment of samples to be analyzed.

The conclusion is banal but inevitable: if she were on the other side of the ocean, the beautiful blond with blue eyes would be out [of jail]. We, on the other hand, run the risk of getting it wrong either way: keeping innocent people in jail, or releasing them on a bunch of mistakes.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,

I agree that all parents should be concerned. However there is another lesson that I try to impart to my advisees who study abroad: Do not speak with the police unless your attorney is present, even if you have done nothing wrong. If they ask you to be helpful, tell them that you can help them the most with an attorney present.

Halides1

I write this not as an attack or indeed berating anyone. However, involving an attorney is sensible advice if you are in the position where your child or student might be in police custody for a given reason, doesn’t help if your child or student is lying in a morgue.

 

[komponisto]

Halides1

I write this not as an attack or indeed berating anyone. However, involving an attorney is sensible advice if you are in the position where your child or student might be in police custody for a given reason, doesn’t help if your child or student is lying in a morgue.

No disrespect intended, but the Kerchers must have a different view, otherwise we wouldn't be dealing with Maresca.

 

[Antony]

I am giving you a chance to withdraw

You don't have a link. Several weeks ago (IIRC) somebody pointed out that the bra clasp was torn from the strap along a seam (because the stitch holes were visible on the crime photos), and that the prosecution had it wrong that it was cut from the strap. The point s/he was making was that the prosecution lost credibility by getting details like this wrong - not, AFAICS, that the fact of being cut or torn in itself invalidated the DNA evidence.

I did not engage in this discussion; identifying small details of the crime scene is not something I have time or inclination to do, although I respect the vital contribution of those who have done so.

The bra clasp was never credible evidence for a number of reasons: it was produced like a conjuring trick the day after the only other "evidence" against Raff was shown to be worthless; the video of its collection shows the police team mishandling it in a way highly likely to cause contamination; and it was never clear why his DNA would have got on the metal hook during the course of the murder in any case.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

No disrespect intended, but the Kerchers must have a different view, otherwise we wouldn't be dealing with Maresca.

In what way are you dealing with Maresca? In addition, the outcome of this appeal will not change anything for the Kercher family; with equal deference I doubt that Raffaele and Amanda parents if it were possible would change places with the Kercher’s.