Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[shuttlt]

A bit unfortunate for Frank he was defendeding Stefanoni before, attacking people heavily for criticizing her; she was the only good person in this mess and the villain was Mignini and the police alone, he said …

Nobody will remember. It doesn't matter whether he was on the right side for the right reasons, the wrong reasons or no reasons at all. So long as they get off, he should be able to ride a long way on this.

 

[shuttlt]

This is what all of the supporters have been working and hoping for.

Perhaps this betrays me prejudices, but what have the supporters done to contribute to this development?

 

[pilot padron]

Puh....Leeeeze

The PMF fallback position:

PMF: Let RS and AK get their hopes up - it will be just a longer ride down and they deserve every sinking moment. If they walk, it's because money found the right pockets and a lot of them.

Seems like they are starting to lose their faith in the probity of the Italian justice system.

With no intention of precipitating another customary couple page one liner meaningless back forth about some minute mutterings, may I state:

1) You quote for us ONE solitary post from PMF made by ONE solitary poster

2) Surely you 'did not mean to' leap from this ONE solitary post to seriously argue your observation with this:
a) they are starting to lose faith ???
b) Or that this ONE solitary post is now PMF's thousand+ members fallback position,, Really now ??

Edited by LashL: 

Removed previously moderated content and response to same.

 

[komponisto]

Indeed. That looks significant. I take it no nuance is lost going from Italian to English?

Not a chance. I translated the phrase literally: it was erronea interpretazione in the original.

Let's wait and see. All we can tell for sure is how far things have melted so far, and they certainly seem to have melted quite a bit. Momentum is clearly important here, but this case has a history of throwing up surprises and defying predictions of exhonoration.

Here's the way I look at it: if the Hellmann court wanted to sustain the conviction at this point, they would have to write a motivation that sounded as ridiculous as the guilters sound now. And this after granting the review in the first place, which they could easily have refused to do à la Massei. Human folly knows no limits, so it's possible I suppose, but looking less likely.

 

[LondonJohn]

Headline on Sky News:

DNA Evidence 'Glitch' Could See Knox Freed

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...After_DNA_Evidence_May_Have_Been_Contaminated


Is that a ferret I can see starting to reverse in Nick Pisa's trousers?

 

[billyryan]

The forensic team in this case has appalled me. I was shocked when I saw the collection video and saw how they had just LEFT the clothes Meredith Kercher was wearing that night behind, I was horrified how the local cops had tossed the crime scene by Dec 18th. It would be difficult to convince anyone outside the followers of this case just how truly horrible the forensic techniques really were. No one would believe it without seeing it. The mop video helps.

I am so pleased to hear what is in the report. This is what all of the supporters have been working and hoping for. I would love to see Stefanoni and Mignini to take the largest fall for what they each have done. Morally corrupt, this was not a mistake on their part. They deserve to be jailed.

I could not agree more Draca,"THIS WAS NOT A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART",this was deliberate actions by both to deliberately frame two innocent young people,though I am not sure they deserve to face worse consequences than the police that abused two young people then destroyed the tape of their abuse and had the audacity to file charges on her for telling the truth

The kangaroos who over saw this witch trial 19 or 24 or however many of these b....... were in it,I think what was done in this case is what passes as justice in Perugia in all other cases,Frank Sfarzo has said that this case was fairer handled than most,with the press in Italy cowed into silence its only the international exposure that Amanda Knox's family were able to mount that is forcing the Perugian judiciary to provide evidence for their guilty verdict something they are probably not used to having to do

 

[komponisto]

Headline on Sky News:

DNA Evidence 'Glitch' Could See Knox Freed

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...After_DNA_Evidence_May_Have_Been_Contaminated


Is that a ferret I can see starting to reverse in Nick Pisa's trousers?

Ugh. That headline makes it sound like a technicality.

Sky News has not been making a good impression recently...

 

[platonov]

Could this be the beginning of the end of the thread? There've been false dawns before, but this looks promising. Some decisive outcome has to be good, and decisively not guilty has to be the best outcome.

It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy has the ruby slippers and could go home any time, it just takes the good witch a long damn time to get around to telling her. The wheels of justice turn inhumanly slowly.

If this new document turns out to be open to other interpretations than the one that has been quoted, I shall be more than somewhat disappointed.

Oh, I think the duo are still a long way from Kansas still despite all the clicking of heels.

Its certainly a positive* for the defence and badly needed from their point of view.
It will be interesting to see Stefanoni defend her interpretation of the bra clap analysis - this being the most important aspect of the report summary as things stand IMO

* Necessary if not necessarily sufficient but it gives the defence some hope ?? How much remains to be seen - anything less than this and the chances of success were close to zero.
Does it overcome the setback of RG's appearance ??

One could be mischievous and say its better for RS but their fates are entwined at this stage probably.

 

[uk_dave]

Experts have raised doubts about DNA evidence that helped convict US student Amanda Knox of the murder of Meredith Kercher, a leaked report says.
The Italian experts, who have been carrying out tests as part of Knox's appeal, said they could not be certain DNA traces found on a knife were those of 21-year-old Miss Kercher.
Other DNA traces could have been contaminated, they also said.

(Emphasis added)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13965101

I suppose the BBC could be in on the conspiracy too.

 

[komponisto]

uk_dave, didn't we have an exchange about media reports the other day?

 

[Diocletus]

New job for Stefanoni! http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/dna-samples-will-determine-if-jupiter-residents-arent-1568967.html

 

[uk_dave]

uk_dave, didn't we have an exchange about media reports the other day?

We did indeed

So, just out of curiosity, are we saying that the report wasn't leaked?

And if it has been provided to the defence and prosecution teams, how long have they had it? I just wonder why it was necessary to include the criminal's testimony (the baby killer one) when, apparently, the defence have forensic evidence of the innocence of knox and the aquittal is all but a done deal.

 

[komponisto]

How much remains to be seen - anything less than this and the chances of success were close to zero.
Does it overcome the setback of RG's appearance ??

You know, that's right...Conti and Vecchiotti's findings had better be weighed very carefully against the testimony of someone as credible and upstanding as Rudy Guede.

 

[Katody Matrass]

A bit unfortunate for Frank he was defendeding Stefanoni before, attacking people heavily for criticizing her; she was the only good person in this mess and the villain was Mignini and the police alone, he said …

Patrizia has her share of responsibility, but it looks like she's going to get scapegoated. I think Perugian cops and magistrate, Massei included, are much more guilty.

 

[Draca]

Perhaps this betrays me prejudices, but what have the supporters done to contribute to this development?

Personally I think FOA, IIP, DNA experts letter, Steve Moore, etc. put enough pressure on that Hellmann was sent in to be a willing clean the mess up. The allowing of the independent experts to review the DNA was a result. You are right that we will never know how much public pressure played in this. I think it did play a roll though.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Perhaps this betrays me prejudices, but what have the supporters done to contribute to this development?

Being loud about the issue, keeping it pubic? I think the letter of Hampikian & al. played some positive role. Hellmann could simply refuse defense's request for the data and testing if the DNA controversy wasn't so public.

 

[platonov]

Context free creationist 'arguments' come to mind.

You know, that's right...Conti and Vecchiotti's findings had better be weighed very carefully against the testimony of someone as credible and upstanding as Rudy Guede.

I guess the snip and silent edit of the rest of my post means something

 

[Chris_Halkides]

It is not one person

Patrizia has her share of responsibility, but it looks like she's going to get scapegoated. I think Perugian cops and magistrate, Massei included, are much more guilty.

Katody Matrass,

I think that this is exactly right. the problem started with involving the PM too early in the investigation (which is typical for Italy, IIUC). The willingness of the cops to bend (or break) the rules about suspects and lawyers is also a huge part of this fiasco. Massei acted as a facilitator for the prosecution, not an impartial referee. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Barbie may have been surprised, but I was not (at least not completely)

Being loud about the issue, keeping it pubic? I think the letter of Hampikian & al. played some positive role. Hellmann could simply refuse defense's request for the data and testing if the DNA controversy wasn't so public.

Katody Matrass,

+1
It is helpful to reread the Johnson/Hampikian open letter and compare it with the present news reports.

 

[bolint]

I'm sure you think Judge Hellmann is just going to jump to the end and not even bother reading the entire report. Guess why he's given both sides almost a month to analyze the report.

I don't think that reading the entire report will give different conclusion.
Maresca has surely read it, his reaction tells all.

LA SODDISFAZIONE DEI LEGALI DI SOLLECITO - E' stato comunicato a Raffaele Sollecito con un telegramma inviato dall’avvocato Luca Maori, uno dei suoi difensori, l’esito della perizia sulle tracce di Dna al centro del processo d’appello a carico suo e di Amanda Knox per l’omicidio di Meredith Kercher. Il legale si recherà domani mattina nel carcere di Terni per incontrare il giovane pugliese. «Gli consegnerò l’intera perizia» ha detto. L’avvocato Maori si è detto «più che soddisfatto dell’esito degli accertamenti». «Risultati netti e decisi – ha aggiunto – che non danno adito a dubbi o interpretazioni. Riguardo al coltello, oltre all’impossibilità di attribuire il Dna sulla lama alla Kercher, in ogni caso dalla perizia risulterebbe che quello non è l’arma del delitto come per altro sempre sostenuto da noi». Altro punto fondamentale è il gancetto per il quale i due periti hanno sostenuto la «totale inesistenza del Dna di Sollecito». «Addirittura per il cromosoma Y gli esperti ne hanno individuati tre – ha proseguito – di soggetti non individuati, che non sono nè Rudy Guede nè Sollecito. Cromosomi non indicati dalla polizia scientifica. Attendiamo comunque di definire la vicenda nel contraddittorio delle parti che comunque pensiamo sia ormai definita con il deposito della perizia».

LEGALE KERCHER: SIAMO SORPRESI - «Siamo rimasti sorpresi della categoricità delle valutazioni di questi periti», ha detto l’avvocato Francesco Maresca che insieme alla collega Serena Perna rappresenta la famiglia Kercher. «Conoscendo la lunga esperienza di tutti gli operatori della polizia scientifica e il livello di altissima professionalità dei consulenti che sono stati sentiti in primo grado, - ha aggiunto - pensiamo che dei periti con assoluta inesperienza non possano essere così drastici. Lo chiariremo davanti alla corte d’assise d’appello. Io in primo grado ho fatto una discussione senza parlare degli aspetti scientifici della questione perchè ci sono ben altre prove che dimostrano la colpevolezza dei due imputati», ha concluso il legale.