China creates video game simulating combat against US troops

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

Things China will gain if it starts a war:
Oil (as you say, though you don’t realize that China has other assets)
Things China will lose if it starts a war:
Facing the Allies & another Worldwar
Drop in Trades with the West
Break in the relationship with the West.

--Yes, I’m always 2+2=4, while you’re 2+2=22.

Whether or not WE think that China has more to lose than gain, they may not feel the same way. They may, in fact, be making that calculation based on entirely different priorities than we think are. The idea that war cannot break out because the agressor would lose just doesn't withstand scrutiny. It's happened time and time again. And it WILL happen again. I do not know if it will happen with China. I never claimed to know. But you certainly cannot know that it will not.

like I said you seem to fit in more into the Religious Forum. Tying yourself up again, you contradict yourself. Possibilities vs Probabilities.
IF China is harassed then it will hit back, this doesn't make them a threat or a danger. You show possibilites with no backing, you create a situation for reprisal, doesn't make China a threat.

Ps. In response to China's interest you stated: Oil, for US' interest it is a stable, democratic Taiwan(what a coincidence that Taiwan are rich with oil and the US wants to help) . If you still believe that the US' interest is only to help, keeping in mind that their economy is collapsing and needs oil.
Then any further talks with you is useless. Everything you've stated is based on your opinion, with that I leave you to have your own view and I'll keep mine.

 

[Shrek]

Assuming that the word you wanted to write was "screwed", then yes, it's fine.

Good

Yes, I'm a US citizen. And?

Not a surprise

Good thing you're not trying to convince me, because it's not convincing. I don't doubt that people from China are very similar to people from the US. But that wasn't my claim. My claim was that the governments were very different. And the differences are obvious and pervasive. One is a democracy, the other is a dictatorship.

Not really.
Do you think that having about half of the adult people going to the polls every four years to select the blue or the red candidate makes such a difference?

Since this is a message board, just consider China's restrictions on the internet. There simply isn't anything even remotely similar in the US. Basically the only thing you CAN'T post on the internet here is child pornography.

Internet restrictions in China can be dealt with quite easily.
But people in China do not care much about that for the same reason people in the US would not care much about that.
As as long the economy is working they are more interested with the name of the brand bag that the famous actress is or when the next sport match will be.

 

[IDB87]

Good
Internet restrictions in China can be dealt with quite easily.

I imagine you help set up proxies then? Please, do tell us how 'easy' it is to combat China's evolving internet security? How about what happens to dissidents who get caught on the Chinese side of the firewall?

But people in China do not care much about that for the same reason people in the US would not care much about that.

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

As as long the economy is working they are more interested with the name of the brand bag that the famous actress is or when the next sport match will be.

Yeah, you definitely have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ziggurat]

Not a surprise

Since you seem to find it relevant where I live, where do you live?

Not really.
Do you think that having about half of the adult people going to the polls every four years to select the blue or the red candidate makes such a difference?

Compared to not even having the ability to do so? Hell yes! And the results of that difference are, again, obvious and pervasive.

Internet restrictions in China can be dealt with quite easily.

Ah, so your your defense of government tyranny is that it's ineffective. Not much of a defense. And also quite irrelevant to all the areas of life where it's NOT ineffective.

As as long the economy is working they are more interested with the name of the brand bag that the famous actress is or when the next sport match will be.

Except it's only "working" for a fraction of their population. And even for those for whom it is "working", the fact that they've adapted to and accepted the government control over their lives doesn't mean it's magically somehow not there. People in China are far less free than in the US, or most of Europe, or many other places in the world.

 

[Shrek]

Compared to not even having the ability to do so? Hell yes!

Then we have to disagree

Ah, so your your defense of government tyranny is that it's ineffective.

Where did I defended tyranny?
I just said that the two systems are not that far away after all.
Do you really think you live in a democracy?

Except it's only "working" for a fraction of their population.

No, it is not.
It is working for a lot of people

Having lifted 250 million people out of poverty in three decades, China still has 200 million people living on under £1 a day. About 65 per cent of its population is in rural areas.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3561198/This-is-a-time-of-celebration-in-China.html

Now the number of people with less than 1 pound a day is probably even less than 200 millions

 

[Ziggurat]

Things China will gain if it starts a war:
Oil (as you say, though you don’t realize that China has other assets)

Why is Taiwan not on your list?
Are you paying any attention?

Things China will lose if it starts a war:
Facing the Allies & another Worldwar

Don't be stupid. There's no way in hell the US is going to start a world war if China did something like attack southern Sudan. And who the hell else do you expect to get involved other than the US if China attacked Taiwan?

Ps. In response to China's interest you stated: Oil, for US' interest it is a stable, democratic Taiwan(what a coincidence that Taiwan are rich with oil and the US wants to help) .

Again, are you paying any attention? China's interests include Tainwan. And not a democratic Taiwan, but a Taiwan under control of Mainland China's communist party. I thought everyone knew this. How are you so ignorant of this?

If you still believe that the US' interest is only to help

I never said that.

Everything you've stated is based on your opinion

Not so. I've repeatedly presented facts to back up my opinions about China. You, on the other hand, have not.

 

[Shrek]

Again, are you paying any attention? China's interests include Tainwan. And not a democratic Taiwan, but a Taiwan under control of Mainland China's communist party. I thought everyone knew this. How are you so ignorant of this?

After having their own Government placed and/or supported criminal dictators in Brazil, Iran, Romania, Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan among other countries, now they scream if China wants to take Taiwan (which has been part of China territories for quite a while..)

Yawn..

 

[Ziggurat]

Where did I defended tyranny?
I just said that the two systems are not that far away after all.
Do you really think you live in a democracy?

Oh, please. You're not one of those "politicians just fool the sheeple!" guys, are you?

Having lifted 250 million people out of poverty in three decades, China still has 200 million people living on under £1 a day. About 65 per cent of its population is in rural areas.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3561198/This-is-a-time-of-celebration-in-China.html

From your own source:
"In additional to rising uncertainty and risks in the global economy, the country is faced with the challenges of a widening income gap, serious pollution, an ageing society and growing pressure of employment, to name a few."

So that rather supports what I said. The income gap is growing because their new prosperity is largely limited to a fraction of the population: mostly, the urban centers near the costs. Which is part of why they restrict travel and residency. They don't let the rural poor move to the richer cities, because they don't want the influx of poor to upset the wealth of the cities. Did you know that? Did you know you aren't allowed to live wherever you choose in China? Or did you think that such government restrictions also existed in the US?

And again, this is just part of the pervasive difference. Want to complain about the government in China? That's risky business Want to complain about the government in the US? Welcome to the club, you'll have to get in line behind almost everyone else. Does the government want to build a road where your house is? In China, they can just kick you out. In the US, they need to buy the land from you. Etc, etc.

You can pretend that all these differences don't matter, but they do. Especially in total.

 

[Ziggurat]

After having their own Government placed and/or supported criminal dictators in Brazil, Iran, Romania, Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan among other countries, now they scream if China wants to take Taiwan (which has been part of China territories for quite a while..)

Yawn..

Now you're trying to argue about which interest is justified. But that's a different question, and in regards to Taiwan, it's not one I've actually addressed before. It's also irrelevant to this thread. The fact is that China and the US have conflicting interests in regards to Taiwan. Concluding that one set of interests or the other is right won't actually do ANYTHING to change what those interests are, nor will it reduce the risk of conflict over those interests.

 

[Shrek]

Oh, please. You're not one of those "politicians just fool the sheeple!" guys, are you?

Rather I would say, sheeple do not care much about other sheeple

From your own source:
"In additional to rising uncertainty and risks in the global economy, the country is faced with the challenges of a widening income gap, serious pollution, an ageing society and growing pressure of employment, to name a few."

Do you think the US is without problems?
Where shall I start?

So that rather supports what I said. The income gap is growing because their new prosperity is largely limited to a fraction of the population: mostly, the urban centers near the costs.

This is not what you said.
You said that Chinese Government policies are working only for a fraction of the population.
I proved you wrong.
Well, unless you do not want to consider that 200~250 million peasants lifted from poverty as a part of the population

Which is part of why they restrict travel and residency. They don't let the rural poor move to the richer cities, because they don't want the influx of poor to upset the wealth of the cities.

My guess is that they want the rural poorer parts of the country to start develop without having a mass migration

Did you know that? Did you know you aren't allowed to live wherever you choose in China? Or did you think that such government restrictions also existed in the US?

In the US 50 or 60 years ago blacks and whites had to use separate toilets.

And again, this is just part of the pervasive difference. Want to complain about the government in China? That's risky business Want to complain about the government in the US? Welcome to the club, you'll have to get in line behind almost everyone else.

Does not change much, as the power elite in the US, as well as in China, could not care less about the complaints of the people

Does the government want to build a road where your house is? In China, they can just kick you out. In the US, they need to buy the land from you. Etc, etc.

Does the Government of the US want to take half (or kind of) of your taxes to fight countries in places you never heard of?
They can do that.

You can pretend that all these differences don't matter, but they do. Especially in total.

Not as much as you seem to think.
It is just propaganda

 

[Ziggurat]

Do you think the US is without problems?

Of course not.

But it's still not a dictatorship. And there are a lot of problems that dictatorships have that democracies simply don't. Starting with the obvious: a severe lack of freedom.

My guess is that they want the rural poorer parts of the country to start develop without having a mass migration

They can want it all day long, it's still not happening.

In the US 50 or 60 years ago blacks and whites had to use separate toilets.

Where was China 50 years ago? Oh, that's right: starving millions of their own citizens because of disastrous decisions made by the dictatorship.

Does not change much, as the power elite in the US, as well as in China, could not care less about the complaints of the people

The beauty of democracy is that even if the "power elite" don't care about what the people want, what the people want still matters, and still has an effect. Of course, that's simply not true in a dictatorship: if the power elite don't care about what the people want, then it truly doesn't matter.

Does the Government of the US want to take half (or kind of) of your taxes to fight countries in places you never heard of?
They can do that.

I like your "kind of" excuse. You're only "kind of" dealing with reality.

Not as much as you seem to think.
It is just propaganda

It's like I'm sitting in a college campus coffee shop again. Tell me one more time about your glorious plans for the proletariat.

 

[Pardalis]

In the US 50 or 60 years ago blacks and whites had to use separate toilets.

And now they've elected a mulatto president. It tells you alot about what kind of society would allow such change in so little time.

Meanwhile, China still has no elections, and no freedoms.

 

[IDB87]

Tell me one more time about your glorious plans for the proletariat.

Please no....I can't take it anymore.

 

[McHrozni]

Let's see. Why didn't you quote the rest of what I said and you'd see that it made reference to the article WHICH your amiga, ZIGGURAT, quoted from. I'll requote it esp. for you:
“BEIJING: China has signaled it wants to go the US way and set up military bases in overseas locations that would possibly include Pakistan. The obvious purpose would be to exert pressure on India as well as counter US influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.”

The article also went on to say WHY they are looking into going the US WAY:

“"As for the military aspect, we should be able to conduct the retaliatory attack within the country or at the neighboring area of our potential enemies. We should also be able to put pressure on the potential enemies' overseas interests,"
*************************

Which isn't anything but pinning the blame on the US. Good work, stundie man.

McHrozni

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

Why is Taiwan not on your list?
Are you paying any attention?

Have YOU? Taiwan is not a gain. OIL is a gain. Why are you so blind to not see that wars are no long fought for land but oil. If China goes to war there is no indication that it will win Taiwan 100% (though some view Taiwan as already being of China)

And who the hell else do you expect to get involved other than the US if China attacked Taiwan?

Come out of your bubble, the US goes to Afghan who got involved? the US goes to Libya who got involved? The US has allies who will also follow. Why is this not common sense, that we live in a global village.

Not so. I've repeatedly presented facts to back up my opinions about China. You, on the other hand, have not.

No you've brought unrelated facts but NOTHING points to your opinion that China is a danger & a threat.

 

[IDB87]

No you've brought unrelated facts but NOTHING points to your opinion that China is a danger & a threat.

It's like...he's not reading...the thread.

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

And now they've elected a mulatto president. It tells you alot about what kind of society would allow such change in so little time.

Meanwhile, China still has no elections, and no freedoms.

China isn't a democracy why compare it to one? And I do see they have freedoms there if you ever visited.

Can I ask you something? did the people of America have any say over invading Afghan, or Libya or any other place the US troops are currently occupying? Did anyone of you demand to know what happened to the supposed weapons of mass destruction or got answers about the weapons of mass destruction?
I'm not being sarcastic, I only want to know something.

 

[excaza]

Can I ask you something? did the people of America have any say over invading Afghan, or Libya or any other place the US troops are currently occupying? Did anyone of you demand to know what happened to the supposed weapons of mass destruction or got answers about the weapons of mass destruction?
I'm not being sarcastic, I only want to know something.

You see, every few years we have these things called elections, where we go vote for people who believe will best represent our interests. So, yes.

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

It's like...he's not reading...the thread.

A country that has an interest that can clash with the interest of another country, doesn't mean that they are a danger. It becomes a danger when the other party has nothing to lose when they set out to war. Zig's reasoning is on MAY, CAN, PERHAPS to justify that China is a danger/threat to the US.
Nothing he has quoted as evidence shows that China is a threat, he only created his opinion based on what MIGHT happen.

Now I'm guessing you are from the US and it's not suprising. Carry on. I suggest you start learning Chinese.

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

You see, every few years we have these things called elections, where we go vote for people who believe will best represent our interests. So, yes.

So, no.