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Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Things have gotten much worse.

The stakes are everything, and as fantastic as it may seem, even if 9-11 is the greatest conspiracy ever created, we have a situation evolving in America that is much worse RIGHT NOW.

How about Michael Leiter? Director of the National Counterterrorism Center

This was a Bush leave behind, Obama kept him for a while because he didn't want to look soft on terrorists.

Rumors suggest that the underwear bomber was actually escorted to his flight by an American.

His seat assignment would have placed him right next to a reserve tank in the wing.

It was one of the few places that the quantity of explosives he was carrying could actually bring the airliner down.

It is rumored that Michael Leiter had ordered the man to be let through so he could be watched in the United States.

Man those Loyal Bushies really hate Obama.

If he had succeeded in destroying the plane, I can guarantee you that Lamar Smith Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee would have had impeachment before the House before all the plane debris had reached the ground.
 
The investigation of that flights destruction would not have been completed until the trail had gone cold and Obama had been impeached.
 
DeathDart said:
The stakes are everything, and as fantastic as it may seem, even if 9-11 is the greatest conspiracy ever created, we have a situation evolving in America that is much worse RIGHT NOW.

How about Michael Leiter? Director of the National Counterterrorism Center

This was a Bush leave behind, Obama kept him for a while because he didn't want to look soft on terrorists.

Rumors suggest that the underwear bomber was actually escorted to his flight by an American.

His seat assignment would have placed him right next to a reserve tank in the wing.

It was one of the few places that the quantity of explosives he was carrying could actually bring the airliner down.

It is rumored that Michael Leiter had ordered the man to be let through so he could be watched in the United States.

Man those Loyal Bushies really hate Obama.

If he had succeeded in destroying the plane, I can guarantee you that Lamar Smith Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee would have had impeachment before the House before all the plane debris had reached the ground.
Click to expand...


But if you're willing to reach conclusions based on rumors, it's also been rumored (much more widely than any of the rumors you cite) that Obama is a foreign national constitutionally ineligible for the office, a secret Muslim working to destroy America, and the Antichrist. So if you insist on going by rumors, he obviously should be impeached.

Sure, a random terrorist act would be an utterly ineffective pretext for attempting to impeach a foreign Muslim Antichrist President, but why choose that little detail to start making any sense about?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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triforcharity said:
Hey C7, welcome back.

Now, did you have time to study the standpipe systems and what would have been a very major monkeywrench in your bull **** theory?
Click to expand...
You are right about the standpipe and sprinkler systems being combined in WTC 7. However, you are trying to imply that the combined system was damaged by the debris from WTC 1 and therefore the entire standpipe system was disabled. A real firefighter would know better.
Even if the standpipe/sprinkler system in the west stairway was damaged it would not disable the standpipe/sprinkler system in the east stairway.
[FONT=&quot]
NCSTAR 1-4B pg 23 [pdf pg 75]
The codes and standards applicable to the fire and life safety provisions for WTC 1, 2 and 7
pg 24 WTC 7
- RS 17-1: Standpipe System Construction
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR 1-4B Fire Suppression.pdf

REFERENCE STANDARD RS 17
Pg 292 [pdf pg 2]
(2) O. S. & Y. indicating valves (with indicator readily
visible from the floor) shall be provided to permit any
riser or other section to be shut off while remaining
risers or sections continue in use.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/bldgs_code/bcrs17.pdf

Real firefighters didn't ask someone to "do the math"; they just got the job done.
NCSTAR 1-8 pg 229
10:38:32 10-84 , Engine 309 /E33, (reported to Command Post at West and Liberty streets, stretched 3 ½ inch hoselines from command post to Marine Companies at pier, stretched supply lines from Marine 2 to E 209 E 279, stretched supply lines to manifolds and Tower Ladders, searched collapse area)

[/FONT] They arrived at the Battery less than 10 minutes after both towers had collapsed. Already on station were the NYFD fireboats Fire Fighter and McKean.
http://powerandmotoryacht.com/features/0202bornagain/index2.html

[FONT=&quot]"Fire hoses were quickly run from the Harvey to the World Trade Center, and the firefighters were able to put down the remaining fires, saving everything but World Trade Center 7, which collapsed later that day."
http://everything2.com/title/The+Joh...ro+of+9%252F11

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
Apparently C7 thinks that because abundant water was available to fight WTC 7, but it wasn't fought, it points to "them" being in on it. "They" told the firefighters not to fight WTC 7 because "they" wanted it to come down.

I guess a 1,350' building landing on it had nothing to do with it.
 
C7, say again: FDNY totally incompetent, or FDNY murderers?

Either way, the FDNY made an excellent call. It saved lives.
 
Christopher7 said:
You are right about the standpipe and sprinkler systems being combined in WTC 7. However, you are trying to imply that the combined system was damaged by the debris from WTC 1 and therefore the entire standpipe system was disabled. A real firefighter would know better.
Even if the standpipe/sprinkler system in the west stairway was damaged it would not disable the standpipe/sprinkler system in the east stairway.
[FONT=&quot]
NCSTAR 1-4B pg 23 [pdf pg 75]
The codes and standards applicable to the fire and life safety provisions for WTC 1, 2 and 7
pg 24 WTC 7
- RS 17-1: Standpipe System Construction
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR 1-4B Fire Suppression.pdf

REFERENCE STANDARD RS 17
Pg 292 [pdf pg 2]
(2) O. S. & Y. indicating valves (with indicator readily
visible from the floor) shall be provided to permit any
riser or other section to be shut off while remaining
risers or sections continue in use.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/bldgs_code/bcrs17.pdf

Real firefighters didn't ask someone to "do the math"; they just got the job done.
NCSTAR 1-8 pg 229
10:38:32 10-84 , Engine 309 /E33, (reported to Command Post at West and Liberty streets, stretched 3 ½ inch hoselines from command post to Marine Companies at pier, stretched supply lines from Marine 2 to E 209 E 279, stretched supply lines to manifolds and Tower Ladders, searched collapse area)

[/FONT] They arrived at the Battery less than 10 minutes after both towers had collapsed. Already on station were the NYFD fireboats Fire Fighter and McKean.
http://powerandmotoryacht.com/features/0202bornagain/index2.html

[FONT=&quot]"Fire hoses were quickly run from the Harvey to the World Trade Center, and the firefighters were able to put down the remaining fires, saving everything but World Trade Center 7, which collapsed later that day."
http://everything2.com/title/The+Joh...ro+of+9%252F11

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
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Lots of links, with nothing actually substantial in regards to the big problem you have with the standpipe system in 7WTC.

Go back and read it again. You'll (possibly) find the problem.
 
triforcharity said:
Lots of links, with nothing actually substantial in regards to the big problem you have with the standpipe system in 7WTC.

Go back and read it again. You'll (possibly) find the problem.
Click to expand...

Not to mention referencing a standard with a 7/08 revision date for a building completed in 1987
 
triforcharity said:
Lots of links, with nothing actually substantial in regards to the big problem you have with the standpipe system in 7WTC.

Go back and read it again. You'll (possibly) find the problem.
Click to expand...
Your lack of knowledge of standpipe systems is the problem. It is self evident that the the standpipe systems could be isolated. I found the code but you just hand wave it.
 
Christopher7 said:
Your lack of knowledge of standpipe systems is the problem. It is self evident that the the standpipe systems could be isolated. I found the code but you just hand wave it.
Click to expand...
So, it is your claim that the standpipe on one side of WTC7 (the east side) could have been charged, correct?

Are you also claiming then that there were adequate numbers of firefighters to enter the building and fight the fire with the standpipe system, and that the building was safe to enter, and that adequate water supplies were available through the standpipe system?

You need to flesh out your theory.

Quoting a couple of standards doesn't explain what you think should have happened.

I'll hold the rest of my questions until you've had a chance to respond.
 
NoahFence said:
Good luck with that. He's every bit as reluctant to acknowledge direct questions as FEMR and Major_Tom.

That's saying something.
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To be fair, he did present evidence that the fireboat Harvey delivered 8000 gpm at 300 psi. However, he neglected friction and head loses to street level.

He also went back an found some evidence that from street level several pumper trucks were used to relay water.

However, he still hasn't shown how that water was used, so he hasn't shown that adequate water supply at adequate pressure was available to fight the WTC7 fire.

I have some hope for him.

ETA: However, quotes like this from Chris:

Real firefighters didn't ask someone to "do the math"; they just got the job done.
Click to expand...

make me think you may be right.
 
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Dave Rogers said:
I have to call you on that one, Travis. The office contents fire was, in effect, energetic enough to sever the steel columns (with a little help from gravity and mass), and didn't burn off way before 99 days passed.

Dave
Click to expand...

No no. You messed it up.

Clayton is supposed to say that we debunkers believe ordinary office contents on fire can do this.

Then I say that we've never doubted the existence of ordinary office contents. :cool:



But anything energetic enough to explosively cut through a steel beam would burn off very quickly.
 
triforcharity said:
Keep going champ. It's hilarious to watch you flounder.
Click to expand...
That is a non-response.
Here is an older version. It's exactly the same. There was no change to the section on standpipes.
REFERENCE STANDARD RS 17-1
STANDPIPE SYSTEM CONSTRUCTION

RS 17-6A.
(2) O. S. & Y. indicating valves (with indicator readily
visible from the floor) shall be provided to permit any
riser or other section to be shut off while remaining
risers or sections continue in use.
http://www.5boroelectric.com/Docs/referencestandard17.pdf

You are the one who is floundering.
 
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