Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Animal]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/21/the-big-lie-911-truther-comic-book_n_881108.html

The Big Lie begins September 7.

That should have the neocons and the Mossad squrming.

No, just another troofer at the head of the line to take money from the terminally stupid and/or the willfully ignorant.

 

[000063]

Chris7:

What are you getting at with all of this? You seem to be saying that there was no fires but the FDNY should have been able to fight these fires (that did not exist).

He never answered my point about whether the FDNY was in on it or not, IIRC.

Do you think I'm in the business of drawing up diagrams for anonymous internet posters? Hope you're kidding.

So you can make, lesee, 700+ posts, yet you can't whip up a diagram in Google Docs or Excel or MSPaint?

There is no reason that WTC 7 should have acquired any downward momentum in the first place.

Have you heard of this newfangled thing called "gravity?

That's the whole point. It shouldn't have collapsed down. If it suffered catastrophic damage to its south face then it should have toppled in that direction.

I like how you move the goalposts from "falling" to "toppling"

Instead, we observe unscathed columns on the north face offering zero resistance to collapse. Nonsense.

Another straw man! Failing columns != zero resistance, any more than a mosquito striking a car windshield doesn't offer "resistance".

It should have done what the structure in my video did: topple. I know that because that's what buildings do under those circumstances.

Affirming the consequent.

Toppling is almost as unlikely as total collapse because of the requirement of SPECIFIC damage as needed when chopping down a tree.

A tree is much less complicated, structurally than a skyscraper.

Simultaneous global failure causing structural collapse doesn't occur from damage because damage is partial.

The OS is a progressive collapse. Straw man.

At most a partial collapse could have occurred. Like a landslide or an avalanche.

Those are so different, mechanically, from a skyscraper's collapse that I'm not sure where to start pointing out where you got it wrong. In fact, I'll leave it to everyone else.

 

[Clayton Moore]

He never answered my point about whether the FDNY was in on it or not, IIRC.

I answered that. FDs answer top down. If a FEMA honcho told the mayor and the mayor told Daniel Nigro that's how the chain of command goes. It would have been perceived that FEMA had the authority of the POTUS.

Have you heard of this newfangled thing called "gravity?

Thanks for clarifying its reinvention.

Another straw man! Failing columns != zero resistance, any more than a mosquito striking a car windshield doesn't offer "resistance".

Another fairy tale plot that the pristine remainder of a building would provide little or no resistance during a/those gravity collapse(s).

A tree is much less complicated, structurally than a skyscraper.

And yet the complicated structures, the skyscrapers, allowing for the difference in height, fell almost as quickly as a tree would.

 

[000063]

I answered that. FDs answer top down. If a FEMA honcho told the mayor and the mayor told Daniel Nigro that's how the chain of command goes. It would have been perceived that FEMA had the authority of the POTUS.

I don't understand what you are talking about. Could you explain more precisely, please? I was talking about Chris, not you, but if you want to chip in, feel free.

I still hold that thousands of people who run into burning buildings aren't going to "globally" follow orders to help murder people, or conceal such a murder, whether said orders came from their chief, the Mayor, or the Lord God Almighty. That leaves the sabotage, which is also impossible. You seem to be describing some sort of third option.

Thanks for clarifying its reinvention.

Not, in fact, an answer.

Another fairy tale plot that the pristine

Irrelevant.

remainder of a building would provide little or no resistance during a/those gravity collapse(s).

A skeeter hitting a windshield does, in fact, slow the entire car down by a minute amount. It would provide resistance, just not enough to stop.

And yet the complicated structures, the skyscrapers, allowing for the difference in height, fell almost as quickly as a tree would.

By which you mean "free fall", which was disproven, right?

Even beams severed by CD would still be an obstacle. The only way for them to provide no resistance--which the OS does not claim--would be for them to be actively launched downward at G the instant the falling mass touched it.

 

[sylvan8798]

I answered that. FDs answer top down. If a FEMA honcho told the mayor and the mayor told Daniel Nigro that's how the chain of command goes. It would have been perceived that FEMA had the authority of the POTUS.

What evidence do you have that that is what happened? I'm having the feeling that Bush had other things to worry about besides the fate of Building 7.

And yet the complicated structures, the skyscrapers, allowing for the difference in height, fell almost as quickly as a tree would.

How is this in any way relevant?

 

[sylvan8798]

Someday maybe I'll write a book with the complete story of 9/11 as expounded by the Twoof mooovement. All the stupid conversations that would have to have taken place, etc.

Larry: Don't worry about 7, chief, we're going to demolish it.

Chief: Well, yeah, it will probably have to come down, once this is all over.

Larry: No, we'll do it today - 5 o'clock or so. All set to go. Already notified the BBC.

Chief: Hmmm...

Chief to FDNY crew: They are going to demolish 7 around 5 o'clock.

Crew: How will they do that?

Chief: Don't ask questions.

Maybe, some truther, somewhere, will recognize just how massively stupid it all sounds.

 

[twinstead]

Maybe, some truther, somewhere, will recognize just how massively stupid it all sounds.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one...

 

[dafydd]

38 million gallons in 3 days - insufficient?

Tell me, Mr. Fireman, how did 38 million gallons trickle out the end of a 5" line?

Well Mr. Carpenter,you got your answer from Mr. Fireman.

 

[dafydd]

Yes, considering the fires burned for 99 days afterwards.



It didn't. We were not using 5" lines for fighting fires. Those are called supply lines. We also were not trying to fight a fire in the 12th floor of a structurally compromised building.

When I need to know how to frame in a window properly, i'll consult you. When I need to fight a huge fire, I will rely on the experts such as the FDNY.

Fire! Fire! Call the carpenters,quickly!

 

[Clayton Moore]

Yes, considering the fires burned for 99 days afterwards.

99 days? What kind of fire can't be put out for 99 days?

Friction from the collapse?

 

[Oz1976]

I agree. Shame on those who forgot Lucky Larry had decided to pull it.

Please elaborate on how Larry Silverstein was at all "lucky" that day? 10 years without tenants paying rent on WTC 1/2 which he had to continue paying his lease on. 5 years without tenants paying rent in WTC 7 which he had to continue paying his lease on. Reconstruction costs. Court fees and attorney's fees. Everwhere he's gone for the last 7 years being harassed by uneducated misinformed miscreants yelling at him for being in the nwo/illuminati/zionist/etc, screaming 911 was an inside job. Yeah he's sure "lucky". More of the same old regurgitated nonsense from you Clayton. No facts, no evidence...just idiocy.

 

[leftysergeant]

I answered that. FDs answer top down. If a FEMA honcho told the mayor and the mayor told Daniel Nigro that's how the chain of command goes. It would have been perceived that FEMA had the authority of the POTUS.

No, they do not, as far as fighting the fires goes. The top was Daniel Nigro. He would have ignored any order to leave an occupied building to burn, or to fight a fire in an empty unstable one. FEMA aint in his chain of command. The Shrub was not in their chain of command. Had FEMA told them that they were taking charge under authority of GWB, and given such stupid orders, the revolution would have started right there on the pile.

No fire fighter seems to think that there was anything the least bit wrong with the orders hey got on site after collapse.

They clearly do not think that the buildings were demolished intentionally. They are not stupid, nor would they remain silent about the murder of their brothers. They know that there is no safety in silence.

It is nothing short of sick to continue saying such absurd things.

 

[NoahFence]

I answered that. FDs answer top down. If a FEMA honcho told the mayor and the mayor told Daniel Nigro that's how the chain of command goes. It would have been perceived that FEMA had the authority of the POTUS.

So you're saying Bush had them ignore WTC 7?

The decision to fight or not to fight WTC 7 was the Fire Department's alone. Rudy's instructions were ( i assume ) "do whatever it takes to save lives"

 

[NoahFence]

99 days? What kind of fire can't be put out for 99 days?

Friction from the collapse?

Do you want only 9/11 examples, or examples from other fires that go on for 99 days or more?

 

[Oz1976]

99 days? What kind of fire can't be put out for 99 days?

Friction from the collapse?

Seriously? Underground fires perhaps? What about the wild fires in Florida and Arizona right now? Heck, they happen EVERY YEAR! It's clear you have no idea what so ever about what happened on that day or the months following. Stop watching truther videos on youtube and go do some actual research as to what occured there. Seriously, the fact you're this ignorant on 9/11 and try to claim it was "mossad" and the jews, it's quite pathetic.

ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wildfires
ETA2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Georgia/Florida_wildfires <===raged from April to June 2007

 

[leftysergeant]

Seriously? Underground fires perhaps? What about the wild fires in Florida and Arizona right now?

There is a mountain in Australia that has been burning a few hundred years. And coal seams aren't even as well-ventilated as the pile.

 

[funk de fino]

There's something wrong with you math. You can't have negative water pressure. There will be water at some psi coming out the other end.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...............

 

[dafydd]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...............

http://www.dry-air.com/design/negative-pressure.html
http://www.budzar.com/NegativePressureHotWaterUnit.asp

http://www.publichealthgreybruce.on.ca/water/public_drinking/Loss_Of_Water_Pressure-FS.htm

http://www.budzar.com/NegativePressureHotWaterUnit.asp

http://iopscience.iop.org/0022-3727/9/14/008;jsessionid=D79DF2636AA72E747FE10325CA794CE3.c3

Ho ho ho indeed. Chris7,stick to carpentry.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Seriously? Underground fires perhaps? What about the wild fires in Florida and Arizona right now? Heck, they happen EVERY YEAR! It's clear you have no idea what so ever about what happened on that day or the months following. Stop watching truther videos on youtube and go do some actual research as to what occured there. Seriously, the fact you're this ignorant on 9/11 and try to claim it was "mossad" and the jews, it's quite pathetic.

ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wildfires
ETA2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Georgia/Florida_wildfires <===raged from April to June 2007

Wildfires? Compared to a 99 day 1 or 2 acre fire? Did you use a spreadsheet to figure out what to compare the 9/11 fires to?

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Bollyn-dancing-Israelis.html


9-11 Mossad Agents Admit Mission

by Christopher Bollyn
28 June 2002


Israeli Agents Nabbed On 9-11 Admit:
“Our Purpose Was To Document The Event”


Update: Three of the five "dancing Israelis" appeared on an Israeli television show to explain that they were sent to document the event. Here is an excerpt of them:
ForBollynsSpeech11Nov2006_DancingIsraelis.wmv 2.4 mb

Paul Watson Reports Former BBC Presenter Now Admits 9/11 was an Inside Job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKhtlLWkQXI

 

[Christopher7]

38 million gallons in 3 days - insufficient?

Yes, considering the fires burned for 99 days afterwards.

That is a non answer. The question was if 38 million gallons was sufficient for the first 3 days.

You are wrong about it being 38 million gallons in the first 3 days and you are wrong about it being insufficient to reach the 12th floor. You are NOT an expert on this subject.

"After the WTC buildings collapsed, fire fighting and rescue operations continued. The fires at ground zero were smoldering for months after the attack (41). It was determined that 3 million gallons of water were hosed on site in the fire-fighting efforts between 9/11 and 9/21
In addition, there were two episodes of rain during the same 10-day period: on 9/14 and 9/20,21 (18), totaling 0.9 million gallons of water in the Bathtub area. Considering the neighboring areas, we take 1 million gallons from the rain. Therefore, a total of 4 million gallons of water percolated through the debris in the first 10 days and collected at the bottom of the Bathtub."
https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/241096.pdf

Tell me, Mr. Fireman, how did 38 million gallons trickle out the end of a 5" line?

It didn't. We were not using 5" lines for fighting fires. Those are called supply lines.

That is another non answer. How did they get millions of gallons to the sight if the water just trickled out of the supply line as you said it would do?

I did some research and I now know the answer but you still don't. The way they managed to get millions of gallons of water to the sight from the Harvey would necessarily deliver it at a pressure sufficient to reach the 12th floor and above as in this video of water being applied to the roof of 90 West St. from the building next door demonstrates.
at 3:37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufz71bjwqvY