Executions in California cost $300 million each

[Ausmerican]

But what is the benefit ? The biggest would be deterrence. As an example of a place with no death penalty, take Mexico. And only kidnapping for ransome. Here, it is one of the few federal capital offences. We have very few of them happen. Mexcico, no death penalty for KFR, the offense is rampant.

As far an the number 714, how many of them are very permanent? Death row was full when an appeal made executions stop, back in the 70s? All those inmates, if still alive, are permanently on death row, with no chance of execution.

Also, we need to contrast the $300M with the cost of keeping somebody for life. There is a cost, why no comparison?

Should the deterrent factor not mean that the states with the death penalty then have a lower rate of crimes punishable by the death penalty?
I do not think that this is the case.

 

[BenBurch]

Interesting. I am assuming that this is a result of isolating said prisoners and additional security, but would be interested if anybody who actually knows why this is would care to comment.

Yeah, I don't know the reasons, but that is what news reports said back then.

 

[Brainster]

Are we skeptics around here? The $300 million figure is risible on its face. I like this quote:

The report's authors, a senior judge, Arthur Alarcon, and a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, Paula Mitchell, do not make any judgment for or against the death penalty. They simply ask whether the system makes sense and whether Californian voters are getting what they wanted.

Yes, of course they make no judgment; just reporting the facts, right? But you can see the problem here:

The answer is a resounding no, according to the authors. Since 1978, California and the US government have together spent some $US4 billion on the state's death row, yet only 13 prisoners have been executed, an average of $US308 million for each one.

The problem, quite clearly, is the 25 years on average it takes to execute someone; this means that they're still clearing out the 1986 murderers. As pointed out in the LA Times story, far more death row prisoners have expired of natural causes (54) than of being executed. Indeed, more have killed themselves (perhaps of boredom over the interminable appeals process) than have been killed by the state. If we add in the number who died before their execution, the cost goes down to under $50 million per death on death row. And that's still a ridiculous number; as pointed out by others those costs need to be adjusted for the cost of maintaining the inmates somewhere other than death row.

 

[WildCat]

Yes.

Substantially more.

Why? What is the difference?

 

[I Ratant]

There are those who would argue cost is not too high, it's the number of executions that are too low

.
It would be quite a feat to clear out Death Row.
The sheer number of deaths in quick succession would raise quite a stink.
OTOH, I just read about the deaths in *Memorial Medical Center in Uptown New Orleans during and after Katrina, where numerous patients (at least 17) on life support were injected with lethal doses of morphine and midazolam by the physicans attending.
A grand jury declined to indict.
.
.
*"The Best American Science Writing 1010".. "The Deadly Choices at Memorial", by Sherry Fink for "The New York Times Magazine".

 

[Emet]

Why? What is the difference?

I found this little blurb:

After sentencing, prices continue to rise. It costs more to house death row inmates, who are held in segregated sections, in individual cells, with guards delivering everything from daily meals to toilet paper.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/

I'm no expert on prisons in the US, but I might imagine that many sentenced to life without the possibility of parole are not housed this way, unless they are isolated for certain reasons.

 

[WildCat]

This is from 1996-1997, but it's the latest I could quickly find for California: http://www.bsa.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/97125.pdf

The chart on page 18 shows the cost per inmate per year for the various prisons in California. Of the men's facilities only San Quentin holds death row inmates (code COND) and the cost in San Quentin was $22,909 then, which was in the lower end as far as costs go. Salinas Valley state prison was at $25,546 per inmate per year, despite having no death row.

I'm not seeing that it costs more to incarcerate death row inmates than other high-security inmates.

Note this is just for incarceration, and doesn't include legal expenses.

 

[BenBurch]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...e0d5cRvyg&sig2=4T5RAUySnNWZaxTUoYcyAQ&cad=rja

Florida reports an average cost of $68.64 per day for Death Row inmate housing, and if I read this right $44.91 for the average male prisoner.

$9,627,172 total for a year for the 384 prisoners on Death row.

This would be $6,298,752 then, if they were in general population, a difference of $3,328,420

I presume it cannot be too different in other places.

 

[eeyore1954]

Should the deterrent factor not mean that the states with the death penalty then have a lower rate of crimes punishable by the death penalty?
I do not think that this is the case.

If everything else was the same in the different states I would probably agree.

 

[Alt+F4]

I'm not seeing that it costs more to incarcerate death row inmates than other high-security inmates.

Note this is just for incarceration, and doesn't include legal expenses.

I think most of the additional expenses are on the legal, rather than on the incarceration side. According to the ACLU of Northern California:

The Scott Peterson trial consumed more than 20,000 hours of prosecutor staff time. This is equivalent to nine full-time staff people for a year. In fact, 33 employees worked on the prosecution's case, including five attorneys and seven investigators.

Capital punishment cases get at least three trials: the initial trial, the penalty phase and an automatic appeal.

http://www.aclunc.org/issues/crimin...osts_of_california's_death_penalty.shtml#Does it cost more?

 

[Alt+F4]

....In addition, almost everyone on California's death row is indigient, so the state is paying for their defense too. Compounding the issue, most lawyers in California don't want to take on these cases so it sometimes takes years to find these people appellate lawyers.

 

[WildCat]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...e0d5cRvyg&sig2=4T5RAUySnNWZaxTUoYcyAQ&cad=rja

Florida reports an average cost of $68.64 per day for Death Row inmate housing, and if I read this right $44.91 for the average male prisoner.

But "the aaverage male prisoner" isn't the proper comparison. A proper comparison would be the average male high security prisoner, since they wouldn't be sent to a minimum security prison if they received a life without parole sentence instead.

 

[WildCat]

Capital punishment cases get at least three trials: the initial trial, the penalty phase and an automatic appeal.

Only the automatic appeal is unique to death penalty convicts.

 

[mhaze]

http://www.theage.com.au/world/executions-cost-300m-each-in-california-study-20110621-1gdfu.html



Not only that:



Even if you factor in a three times fudge factor, that's still $100 million an execution. Does anyone want to rationalise this practice, as against incarceration for the rest of the offenders' lives? What's the point of justice delayed 25 years?

And please, no "a bullet costs a quarter" posts. We are talking about the administration of justice in a first world country.

This work needs to be outsourced to the private sector on competitive bids. I could do it for $50 million...

 

[JamesDillon]

Only the automatic appeal is unique to death penalty convicts.

Actually the penalty phase is closer to unique. All convicts have a right to direct appeal with court-appointed counsel; true that it isn't "automatic" in the sense that it can be waived, but, without looking at statistics, I'd be surprised if very many convicted felons don't take advantage of that right. The penalty phase in a death penalty case literally constitutes a separate trial in itself, complete with the presentation of witnesses and other evidence and opening and closing arguments, followed by deliberation by the jury on the question of whether to recommend the death penalty. These hearings can go on for days or more. In contrast, sentencing in a non-capital case consists of the submission of memoranda by counsel and a short hearing in court-- probably half an hour or less on average.

 

[Biscuit]

But what is the benefit ? The biggest would be deterrence. As an example of a place with no death penalty, take Mexico. And only kidnapping for ransome. Here, it is one of the few federal capital offences. We have very few of them happen. Mexcico, no death penalty for KFR, the offense is rampant.

There are plenty of countries with out the death penalty that do not have rampant crime like Mexico does. The problems Mexico faces are far greater than what capital punishment could solve.

As far a deterrent here in the U.S. most murders are not premeditated, they are crimes of passion. Guy comes home and finds another guy with his wife he snaps, doesn't think, and kills her. Even most gang shooting occur with out thought. This means the deterrent of capital punishment never enters into the killers mind. They are not being rational in the first place.

How many premeditated murders are stopped by this deterrent will never be known. I would argue that anyone that would plot to kill someone is most likely suffering from a disorder that blocks or lessons empathy and the understanding of consequences. I think 300 million a pop is a lot to pay for these unknowable results.

Also, we need to contrast the $300M with the cost of keeping somebody for life. There is a cost, why no comparison?

According to this article it costs about $50,000 a year to house a prisoner in california. The numbers from the OP give us a figure 12,000,000 per year over 25 years for death row inmates.

I am not a rocket doctor but 50K goes into 300 million 6,000 times. I think that means you could imprison someone for 6,000 year before you would reach the cost of one 25 year death row inmate. I am sure I have screwed that up somewhere. Anyone else want to take a crack at these numbers

 

[Zax63]

2007 U.S. Statistics
Homicides 16,929
Executions 42

Which one should we be worrying about?

I believe that a death penalty can be fair and just. I believe that in certain circumstances people can and should be held accountable for their actions to the degree that their life is on the line.

With those beliefs in mind, the current state of things in the U.S. makes the existing death penalty useless and inefficient. I would be willing to support abolishing it. Sorry to be so cold about it but those 40 or 50 annual executions mean nothing in the big scheme of things.

 

[BStrong]

Over the years I've gone from being a strong supporter of the death penalty to being disgusted with the whole process - it's a circus at best - and the whole CJ system is so damaged at this point that short of a complete revamp at every level there can't really be said to be any "Justice" involved at all.

Case in point: A motorcycling friend (Julius Long) was murdered in a road rage incident while riding

http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-02-17/news/17586654_1_motorcyclist-mrs-long-truck

The murderer was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular mansluaghter and sentenced to six months work furlough...

Meanwhile:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-07-...viction-animal-abusers-andrew-douglas-burnett

Guy throws dog into traffic during road rage incident, $120,000.00 raised for a reward fund, dog tosser gets three years in prison.

 

[BenBurch]

But "the aaverage male prisoner" isn't the proper comparison. A proper comparison would be the average male high security prisoner, since they wouldn't be sent to a minimum security prison if they received a life without parole sentence instead.

Unless they have been so violent as to be a danger or are an escape risk, Murderers here in Illinois preferentially go to medium security. Simply because high security is much more expensive.

 

[BenBurch]

And, lest we forget, people get convicted of things they provably did not do, and it's not a rare thing;

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-waukegan-dna-test-20110620,0,618583.story