Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kevinfay]

"There was no independent police complaints and accountability body. Policing operations were not in line with the European Code of Police Ethics, for example in the requirement for officers to display prominently some form of identification, such as a service number, to ensure they could be held accountable."

Absolute disgrace .... one for the Police Union Conference?

 

[Kevinfay]

@kevinfay some of us understand Italian so please send us the links to the audiotapes of the Lion of Perugia Maresca and his witty banter as he holds forth in the upholding of Roman Law. That would be great, thanks.

Now I see your problem, you admire Spartacus and like to rebel against Roman law? .... or you think life is like the B movies you enjoy?

If you want to hear the audios, simply scroll up to where we explained their source, and where they can be found now.

 

[spartacus]

Now I see your problem, you admire Spartacus and like to rebel against Roman law? .... or you think life is like the B movies you enjoy?

If you want to hear the audios, simply scroll up to where we explained their source, and where they can be found now.

You actually hit the nail on the head, Lol.

 

[Kaosium]

- Compile list of allegations to put to Perugia Police Chief, Perugia Police Union and Italian Police National Conference.

Read this first, and then keep in mind this is at least the seventh Italian charged in connection to this case. That's Frank Sfarzo twice, Sulas and Brindani of Oggi, The two Telenorba journalists, Francesca Bene of Giornale dell ‘Umbria and this kid for his montage, intercepted by (presumably) the Polizia di Stato in court for simply wanting to give something to the Knox family as a supporter of Amanda Knox. Perhaps you think this a reasonable charge, I on the other hand find it absurd, and no one would have ever seen this 'religious insult' except the Knox family if it was for those police.

If that doesn't dissuade you, then my request would be to go back to where I linked the list I started, and ask the Perugian police chief what disciplinary action will be taken for the lies or mistakes produced in the press or those preliminary courts against Amanda Knox.

 

[Fine]

* * *
Maresca's job was not just to attempt to receive a settlement, but to extract vengeance, mainly by contesting every mitigation to the sentence and to demand more aggravations. He, along with Pacelli, Patrick's lawyer, also effectively gave the prosecution more voices in court, and in the press, which unfortunately was a big deal in the trial of the first instance. They participated in the defamation campaign both in court and in the press. There's nothing 'dignified' about being represented by a man like Maresca, who incidentally is representing the police in the absurd slander case brought against Amanda's parents. Thus the Kercher lawyer is working to put Amanda's parents in jail.
* * *

_____________________

Kaosium,

Maresca is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda's parents, and is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda. Mignini is the prosecutor in both cases. Can anyone explain why there are seven cops named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against Amanda, while only five cops are named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against the parents? Certainly the same set of cops was defamed---or allegedly defamed---in both cases. Do a couple cops recognize the absurdity---and cruelty--- in charging the parents?

///

 

[Kaosium]

Replies:

Victim's Lawyer

Another obvious reason for the Kerchers to be represented is that none of them spoke Italian, let alone understood the Italian legal system.

Then perhaps it would have been better had he not had a position in court in the trial of the first instance and instead been sitting beside them the whole time so he could explain everything.

It sounded like nobody, lawyers on all sides, or the judges, wanted to do anything except 'put to bed' all the nonsense that was being put around before the trial. The judges were extremely sensitive ... the whole approach is 'we are here to find out what happened' not 'break the witness down' ... puts us to shame, US and UK courts could learn a lot from it.

This is an interesting perspective, I will give it some thought. Inquiries into underwear purchases, gag-gifts, Daily Mail articles, and the like introduced in court to put them to rest. My thought was they wouldn't dignify them with an official standing, or expose the jurors to them unless the case was really weak.

Just one more funny incident in the trial that Maresca poked fun at, just like the others .... when the prosecution produced an INTERPOL report on Knox's rowdy student party in Seattle .... he helped getting it literally 'laughed out of court' ... didn't get a mention in the Motivations Report if I remember correctly?. ...

INTERPOL? I've heard nothing about that, what I recall was Mignini entered the 'Streets of Bagdad' Daily Mail article into the record to support his mens rea, which as you note was rejected by Massei. However it then made an appearance in the prosecution's appeal to support life sentences for Amanda and Raffaele. Something like that, as I recall. Wouldn't Maresca have aided in the preparation of that?

 

[Fine]

Is Deanna Next?

Why the heck wasn't Amanda's blabbermouth kid sister, Deanna, charged with defamation too?......

"In their first interview with non-American media, Knox’s parents and her younger sister, Deanna, who live in Seattle, have agreed to talk in detail about the investigation; they have finally persuaded Knox’s Italian lawyers that it is in her best interest to say what they think of the probe....."

///

 

[Kaosium]

_____________________

Kaosium,

Maresca is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda's parents, and is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda. Mignini is the prosecutor in both cases. Can anyone explain why there are seven cops named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against Amanda, while only five cops are named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against the parents? Certainly the same set of cops was defamed---or allegedly defamed---in both cases. Do a couple cops recognize the absurdity---and cruelty--- in charging the parents?

///

I didn't know he was also the lawyer for the cops in their calunnia charge against Amanda, though come to think of it it does seem to follow. I too have wondered why twelve were eligible to file for the charge but only eight did against Amanda and five against her parents. I think you might be right, that three of them see the absurdity and cruelty. Or it could be the ones that didn't file didn't do so as they're authority figures: Napoleoni, Chiacchiera and Giobbi.

I'd like to know how well the five that went the distance on all of them correlate with the ones who showed up in Frank's doorway...

Here's the list of whose doing the suing, along with a nice picture of Monica Napoleoni, and I do believe that's the back of John Follain's head in the foreground. He sure does seem to be mentioned with Monica a lot, I'm sure that's just coincidence. At any rate, here's the list of the ones charging Amanda:

1. Marco Chiacchiera, vice director, flying squad (in Questura control room).
2. Edgardo Giobbi, head of SCO, Rome (Questura control room).
3. Monica Napoleoni, homicide chief, Flying Squad (went back and forth between Amanda and Raffaele Sollecito’s interrogation rooms and Questura control room).
4. Lorena Zugarini, Flying Squad. (Amanda’s room).
5. Rita Ficarra, Flying Squad (Amanda’s room).
6. Fabio D’Astolto, Flying Squad (saw Knox on Nov. 2).
7. Ivano Raffo, SCO, Rome (Amanda’s room).
8. Anna Donnino, Flying Squad Interpreter (Amanda’s room).

 

[Kaosium]

Why the heck wasn't Amanda's blabbermouth kid sister, Deanna, charged with defamation too?......

"In their first interview with non-American media, Knox’s parents and her younger sister, Deanna, who live in Seattle, have agreed to talk in detail about the investigation; they have finally persuaded Knox’s Italian lawyers that it is in her best interest to say what they think of the probe....."

///

Maybe picking on teenaged girls isn't considered cool in Italy?

...Oh, wait.

Is that the original Times article that got them charged? Do you have a link, I've not seen it in a while.

 

[Dan O.]

Are you sure that RS was arrested at 01:00?

I don't recall where I read the time of his arrest, but if I find a citation, I will post it.

I don't know about the arrest. But here are some times I've been able to lock down with references:

• 22:15 The evening of the 5th she (Monica) calls Raffaele for an interview.
  He finishes his dinner with Amanda and shows up at 22.15. With Amanda too. --(Perugia Shock 2009-02-27)​
• 22:29 Amanda makes a 3 minute phone call to Filomena
  
  Amanda says she "Just arrived" and Raffaele is being questioned. The call ends with Amanda saying: "Now somebody wants to talk to me."​
• 22:40 Raffaele signs statement
  
  Sollecito Raffaele was interviewed again, and he changed his version of events, saying that on the evening of November 1, after Meredith left the house, he was with Knox Amanda until 1800 when they had both left the apartment to go into the centre, around 2030 to 2100.[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1568860/Meredith-Kercher-murder-Judges-report.html (Telegraph:Judges Report)]​

 

[JREF2010]

Franks new piece is questioning the police still.
http://perugiashock.com/

 

[Fine]

Maybe picking on teenaged girls isn't considered cool in Italy?

...Oh, wait.

Is that the original Times article that got them charged? Do you have a link, I've not seen it in a while.

___________________

Here's the LINK. Deanna's just as guilty. And she's been blabbing those damn lies elsewhere too. (Not to mention Madison.)

///

 

[Fine]

I didn't know he was also the lawyer for the cops in their calunnia charge against Amanda, though come to think of it it does seem to follow. I too have wondered why twelve were eligible to file for the charge but only eight did against Amanda and five against her parents. I think you might be right, that three of them see the absurdity and cruelty. Or it could be the ones that didn't file didn't do so as they're authority figures: Napoleoni, Chiacchiera and Giobbi.

I'd like to know how well the five that went the distance on all of them correlate with the ones who showed up in Frank's doorway...

Here's the list of whose doing the suing, along with a nice picture of Monica Napoleoni, and I do believe that's the back of John Follain's head in the foreground. He sure does seem to be mentioned with Monica a lot, I'm sure that's just coincidence. At any rate, here's the list of the ones charging Amanda:

1. Marco Chiacchiera, vice director, flying squad (in Questura control room).
2. Edgardo Giobbi, head of SCO, Rome (Questura control room).
3. Monica Napoleoni, homicide chief, Flying Squad (went back and forth between Amanda and Raffaele Sollecito’s interrogation rooms and Questura control room).
4. Lorena Zugarini, Flying Squad. (Amanda’s room).
5. Rita Ficarra, Flying Squad (Amanda’s room).
6. Fabio D’Astolto, Flying Squad (saw Knox on Nov. 2).
7. Ivano Raffo, SCO, Rome (Amanda’s room).
8. Anna Donnino, Flying Squad Interpreter (Amanda’s room).

_________________________

Kaosium,

Here's the list of cops charging the parents:

1. Monica Napoleoni
2. Rita Ficarra
3. Stefano Giubotti
4. Lorenza Zugarini
5. Stefano Buratti

See: Andrea Vogt

///

 

[RWVBWL]

halides,

Are you sure that RS was arrested at 01:00?

We know he alone was asked to go to the Police station and clarify some things, he asked if he could go later, the Police said 'fine' ... assuming that that he and Knox would be attending Meredith's Memorial, like the rest of the town.

In fact, they went together to eat a pizza and then both went to the Police station. There was no need for her to be hanging around in the waiting room.
<snip>

Hi Kevinfay,
Of where do you get this fact that they went to eat a pizza?

I ask this for from what I know from reading in a book on this brutal murder titled Murder in Italy, Amanda and Raffaele were not out at some pizza joint getting a bite to eat, but were at a friend of Raffaele's having dinner trying to re-gain a sense of normalacy:

"Raffaele got the call around 10:00pm, according to Amanda.
We were at the apartment of a friend of his, who lived near Raffaele's, and we were having dinner with them, trying, I guess, to feel a little normal, when the police called Raffaele," she said later.

Raffaele asked for permission to finish eating before they came in, a request that didn't endear the couple to the officers, although they granted it.

I have heard of this out getting a pizza story for a few years now, which you claim as fact.
Do you have proof of it?
Thanks for a reply,
RWVBWL

 

[Mary_H]

_____________________

Kaosium,

Maresca is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda's parents, and is representing the cops in the defamation charges against Amanda. Mignini is the prosecutor in both cases. Can anyone explain why there are seven cops named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against Amanda, while only five cops are named as "Plaintiffs" in the case against the parents? Certainly the same set of cops was defamed---or allegedly defamed---in both cases. Do a couple cops recognize the absurdity---and cruelty--- in charging the parents?

///

That would be nice, Fine. Remember, there were twelve cops originally. Kudos to those who have had the guts to pull out, if that's what happened.

 

[Dan O.]

I have heard of this out getting a pizza story for a few years now, which you claim as fact.
Do you have proof of it?
Thanks for a reply,
RWVBWL

Here is the link for that story:

The third incident, according to Giobbi, was the most disturbing. It occurred when the police picked up Rafaele Sollecito for questioning, three days after Kercher's body was discovered. Police located Sollecito at a cafe. It was three in the afternoon and Sollecito was eating a pizza. But Sollecito wasn't alone. Amanda Knox was also sharing the pizza. This so-called "meeting" helped convince Giobbi the couple had acted together in the murder.
​

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000577-504083.html#ixzz1PVjMVUJr

 

[Mary_H]

Everyone is making me laugh tonight.

LOL. Can I just skip the next 42 pages on this? I think I will reread a Brief History of Time. I should be done by last week.

Holy mother of WTF?

Proposed 'To Do List':<snip>
- Compile list of allegations to be put to Prosecutors ... including sexual fantasies, both male and female<snip>

 

[Kaosium]

Here is the link for that story:

The third incident, according to Giobbi, was the most disturbing. It occurred when the police picked up Rafaele Sollecito for questioning, three days after Kercher's body was discovered. Police located Sollecito at a cafe. It was three in the afternoon and Sollecito was eating a pizza. But Sollecito wasn't alone. Amanda Knox was also sharing the pizza. This so-called "meeting" helped convince Giobbi the couple had acted together in the murder.
​

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000577-504083.html#ixzz1PVjMVUJr

Is this accurate? I've wondered about this, I'd seen old accounts that Raffaele was questioned in the afternoon on the fifth, then asked in again that evening, but I haven't seen any confirmation of them recently and figured they were simply mistaken information from early in the trial.

 

[komponisto]

ToD in the appeals

For those wondering (there seemed to be some question about this earlier):

Massei and Cristiani's erroneous determination of the time of death is the subject of section IX.7 (pp.162-168) of Sollecito's appeal document. (The passage has even been previously mentioned here.) It is not discussed in Knox's.

 

[RoseMontague]

Is this accurate? I've wondered about this, I'd seen old accounts that Raffaele was questioned in the afternoon on the fifth, then asked in again that evening, but I haven't seen any confirmation of them recently and figured they were simply mistaken information from early in the trial.

I don't think they "picked up" Raffaele, they just wanted to make sure he was coming that evening for questioning. Most of the interrogations had taken place in the evenings to late at night (the previous night went until about 2AM) and this night they had planned to have an interrogation team available. I think the disturbing part for Giobbi was that they were eating pizza rather than attending the memorial. This is just the impression I have had, don't know if it is accurate or not.