• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

US Officials Declare Eastern Cougar Extinct

William Parcher said:
I'll try to help. All cougars (pumas) everywhere originated from South America in prehistoric times. This was long before any humans inhabited North America.

When cougars began to be scientifically studied and classified the ones living and breeding in (what is now) Georgia were designated as Puma concolor coryi. That is is subspecies of cougar commonly known as "Florida Panther". It had a range including Florida and some surrounding area. Coryi is not the "Eastern Cougar" which was found further north.

The last wild breeding "Florida Panthers" in Georgia were long gone before you were born. Any cougars found in your state now would be wild roaming males from the Florida population, or escaped/released pets.

Below is a map showing former and present cougar range. The dotted lines indicate the former ranges of subspecies. You can see that I have marked two of these subspecies as "Eastern Cougar" and "Florida Panther". The Eastern Cougar is extinct. The Florida Panther now is only located in an area of Florida which represents about 5% of its former range.


[qimg]http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/8f68ce21.png[/qimg]
Click to expand...

or ones came from the north and west. You read one report and you're an expert....right.
 
Yes, a subspecies can be recognized by taxonomic authorities. The fact that some people find the process dubious is irrelevant.

Yes, the USFWS has frequently listed under the ESA as threatened or endangered a subspecies of a species that, on the whole, was not in danger of imminent extinction.

The USFWS has also recognized geographic divisions within a species' range that might or might not be listed - despite the lack of a recognized subspecies. I don't think Bald Eagles were ever listed as federally endangered in Alaska, and I don't think there is an "Alaskan" subspecies . . .
 
The Shrike said:
Yes, a subspecies can be recognized by taxonomic authorities. The fact that some people find the process dubious is irrelevant.

Yes, the USFWS has frequently listed under the ESA as threatened or endangered a subspecies of a species that, on the whole, was not in danger of imminent extinction.

The USFWS has also recognized geographic divisions within a species' range that might or might not be listed - despite the lack of a recognized subspecies. I don't think Bald Eagles were ever listed as federally endangered in Alaska, and I don't think there is an "Alaskan" subspecies . . .
Click to expand...

I'm not questioning whether a subspecies can be recognized by taxonomic authorities. I'm questioning whether taxonomic authorities, can say "There is no subspecies EASTERN COUGAR", and therefore, because there is no subspecies due to taxonomic reclassification, the USFWS makes a recommendation to delist the subspecies.

Yes. I guess I was correct. Thanks for the Bald Eagle seed. The bald eagle was initially listed as two subspecies, it was then determined there was no taxonomic reason to distinguish the two. So the subspecies "Southern Bald Eagle" was delisted, and the entire species was then listed, with geographic population parameters.
http://ecos.fws.gov/docs/federal_register/fr183.pdf
 
The USFWS is very conservative in their assessments of endangered populations, I would say overly conservative. In particular I'm of the opinion (after dealing with them on a small number of construction projects) that their geographic ranges are more about politics than biology.

But be that as it may, again, if this is a subspecies of a larger species the cougars can be reintroduced without too much trouble, either naturally via terratorial expansion of existing populations or artificially via human intervention.
 
Dinwar said:
The USFWS is very conservative in their assessments of endangered populations, I would say overly conservative. In particular I'm of the opinion (after dealing with them on a small number of construction projects) that their geographic ranges are more about politics than biology.

But be that as it may, again, if this is a subspecies of a larger species the cougars can be reintroduced without too much trouble, either naturally via terratorial expansion of existing populations or artificially via human intervention.
Click to expand...

Politics: As in if it conveniently isnt there, it isn't endangered and if it isn't endangered, it doesnt get in way of funding looging projects, and the like. Despite Parcher's apparent reliance in this document, the politic angle is there and shouldn't be ignored or underestimated.
 
I have heard that this animal (E. Cougar) has been gone for some time. So just now they are declaring it extinct.
 
Steelmage said:
I have heard that this animal (E. Cougar) has been gone for some time. So just now they are declaring it extinct.
Click to expand...

It is just now that the Federal government is declaring it extinct. Most of the 21 states of the Eastern Cougar range had already long ago declared it extirpated (extinct) within their border. A few of these states have still not declared it extirpated (extinct). Many of them have laws to protect the Eastern Cougar including those who have declared it extirpated.

The report is full of interesting information such as this. You might also learn that the White-tailed Deer was nearly completely extirpated from the East and that the cougar was dependent on that as a food source.
 
Drewbot said:
Despite Parchers claims that people are not reading the report, I still feel that the delisting was due mainly to taxonomic reasons, and not to population studies.
Click to expand...

Arrant goat blather.

This re-listing is essentially legislative, with some basis in taxonomy. It is the difference in context --legal versus scientific -- that animates this controversy.
 
William Parcher said:
I

The last wild breeding "Florida Panthers" in Georgia were long gone before you were born. Any cougars found in your state now would be wild roaming males from the Florida population, or escaped/released pets.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Western cougars can survive in the Southeast, as the release of a handful of females to help shore up the genetic diversity of the Florida Panther some years ago proved.

It's possible, perhaps even likely, that these cats are finding their way East into the niches left open by the demise of the Eastern cougar. Perhaps not in great numbers, yet, but if coyotes can replace wolves in the East, surely Western cougars can replace Eastern ones.
 
The USFWS is, of necessity, very cautious about declaring listed species extinct. The generally regarded last accepted date for visual confirmation of Ivory-billed Woodpecker was 1944, but they didn't start proceedings to get the species declared "extinct" until the 1980s. Then the species was reported in Cuba, and Mississippi, and then the Arkansas brouhaha . . . The great rift among the leading Ivorybill authorities ultimately (I'm told) stemmed from one pushing too hard to have the species declared "extinct" in the 1980s while others were still actively pursuing what they considered to be credible leads in the field.

So it's difficult and controversial to declare something extinct. You essentially have to decide that there's enough evidence to proverbially prove a negative.
 
Mountain lion killed by car in Connecticut

The mountain lion seen roaming in Connecticut has apparently been killed in an auto accident. Police said a 2006 Hyundai Tucson SUV collided with the big cat around 1:00 a.m. on Saturday on Wilbur Cross Parkway in the area of Exit 55 in Milford.

The mountain lion died due to injuries sustained during the collision, officials said. The driver of the vehicle was not injured.

The 140-pound male mountain lion has been transferred to a DEP facility for further examination. The large cat may be the one sighted in Greenwich on Sunday, June 5.

The Connecticut DEP has been cooperating with the Town of Greenwich Police Department to investigate recent sightings of a large cat in the King Street area of Greenwich. Based on photographs taken of the animal and other evidence it appeared that the animal was a mountain lion.

Mountain lions can travel long distances and may have found its way to Milford, about 40 miles away, official said. There is no native population of mountain lions in Connecticut and the eastern mountain lion has been declared extinct by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. DEP officials have speculated that the animal escaped from a handler or was released...
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • story.mountain.lion.dep.jpg
    story.mountain.lion.dep.jpg
    17.7 KB · Views: 165
Watch the video which was created before the roadkill. A flurry of sightings. A reliable photo by a school teacher which actually shows a cougar (unprecedented for the East). Tracks found that are cougar (unprecedented for the East). Then bam it's killed by a car. If there really are populations of cougars in the East this kind of thing would be happening all the time.
 
William Parcher said:
Watch the video which was created before the roadkill. A flurry of sightings. A reliable photo by a school teacher which actually shows a cougar (unprecedented for the East). Tracks found that are cougar (unprecedented for the East). Then bam it's killed by a car. If there really are populations of cougars in the East this kind of thing would be happening all the time.
Click to expand...

So, the only cougar in the state of Connecticut gets photographed, tracked, and hit by a car, and yet, somehow, still no bigfoot roadkill ANYWHERE on the planet, in the entire history of roads and automobiles. You know what this means, of course.....bigfoot is smarter than cougars.
 
More with larger photos...


The DEP has been working with the Greenwich Police Department to investigate the sightings of a large cat around King Street in Greenwich. DEP officials confirmed Wednesday the animal was a mountain lion based on a hazy photograph, large paw prints and droppings.

No one will know for sure that the Greenwich mountain lion was killed, however, until the DEP's investigation is complete. Schain said the DEP took some droppings, or scat, left by the mountain lion in Greenwich.

"It's possible we could get something from the specimen we have and compare it to evidence we gathered in Greenwich," Schain said.
Click to expand...
 
And of course, new sightings are being reported. Either we have a bit of mass hysteria or suddenly the extinct Eastern Cougar is coming out of the woodwork in numbers...

State officials still maintain a mountain lion killed early Saturday in Milford was the same mountain lion that was spotted in Greenwich June 5 and are downplaying reports of a second mountain lion in the area after a pair of reported sightings in Greenwich Sunday.

"With little or no fresh evidence to the latest sighting, DEP continues to believe the animal killed in Milford early Saturday morning was in fact the animal last seen in Greenwich," Susan Frechette, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Environmental Protection, said in a press conference Monday afternoon.

Frechette said officials are leaning towards the theory that the deceased mountain lion was a captive lion.

"We are at this point assuming the animal killed in Milford Saturday was a captive animal," Frechette said.
Click to expand...
 
William Parcher said:
Watch the video which was created before the roadkill. A flurry of sightings. A reliable photo by a school teacher which actually shows a cougar (unprecedented for the East). Tracks found that are cougar (unprecedented for the East). Then bam it's killed by a car. If there really are populations of cougars in the East this kind of thing would be happening all the time.
Click to expand...

Its Greenwich, its some rich guy's pet, released or escaped. Anything actually living in CT would be in the Northwest corner, if they're there at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom