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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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ok, sorry. It appears to be a question you are not going to answer.

we shall just have to move on with "jewish state" remaining a meaningless undefined term.
We all know "Jewish state" means that it is a refuge state for Jewish people, and all Jews can emigrate there if they wish. You seem to think there's something more to it than that. Can you list the legal inequities between Jews and non-Jews in Israel?

I admit I'm just playing with you, I and everyone else knows you cannot make such a list. That's why you resort to playing silly games with innuendos and hints.
 
Ah, so you're not moving.

If only Arabs were as accepting as having Jewish neighbors who bought land and not represented as dhimmis.

Few things I'm curious about though. Canada had (and still has) the concept of Crown lands, did it not? Had several periods spanning over two centuries of forced assimilation, did it not? Forced relocation of the indigenous population whilst moving in settlers in their stead, did it not?

And it only took Canada, what, until 1990 to have a Native American in the Canadian government? It took Israel one year after its independence.

Out of sheer curiosity, can you explain this excerpt?:
First Nation

Offhand, several of these reasons have been used in the past for the arguments supporting the apartheid allegation against Israel and its treatment of even Israeli Arabs, let alone Arabs residing in PA controlled areas. But yet, after centuries of what could be deemed as an occupation, much of the issues stated above have already been solved or nearly solved (ie little disparity between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs) within Israel and not in Canada.

Again, a couple centuries difference...

This is of course, a superficial comparison between Israel and Canada, devoid of several extensive wars where one tried and failed to annihilate the other (not the passive 'ethnocide' attempted by the British and the non-indigenous people that make up Canada at present against the indigenous population), the state of flux of the different people emigrating of the ME region, the connection to the land of many Jews presently residing in this ME region, and more importantly, the existence of actual treaties formally accepting eachother as neighbors that exist in Canada, that don't exist between the Israelis and Palestinians (not that they haven't been attempts).

Additional 'subtle' differences would be the over-abundance of land and resources, but apparently to some, this is irrelevant, between Canada and Israel. Being able to fit Israel and the disputed territories into Canada almost 360 times with a population just above a 1/3 of Canada (includes Israel and the territories), can obviously not be factored into this epic comparison. :rolleyes:

So to skim past the drivel of somehow people accepting your existence on actual occupied land rather than the allegation of sitting behind some twice voided armistice line, would you be willing to take this comparison any further or are you comfortable sitting where you are now?

EDIT: There are substantially more things to delve into this comparison (ie population differences, as in the indigenous population not posing a threat by imposing a 'right of return' of a significant amount), but I think this would be a good starting point...

canada has an abysmal record of dealing with its native peoples.
if you are expecting that i will defend my government you are wrong.
although our natives often live in third world conditions, there is nothing whatever that stops them from travelling freely anywhere in the country.
i do not believe that this is a luxury open to the people in gaza.
east jerusalem was palestinian territory until 'annexed by israel (read: stolen)
canada is still settling several land claims issues in whiuch first nations communities are typically given hundreds of millions of dollars and large tracts of crown land.
the palestinains are not compensated in like manner.
 
But I'm told there is no difference in civil liberties between any Israeli citizens....what problem with civil liberties gets them rated lower that Australia?
Didn't you read the report? If you did, you'd find that none of it was because of the way Jews and non-Jews are treated in Israel.
 
canada has an abysmal record of dealing with its native peoples.
if you are expecting that i will defend my government you are wrong.
although our natives often live in third world conditions, there is nothing whatever that stops them from travelling freely anywhere in the country.
i do not believe that this is a luxury open to the people in gaza.
east jerusalem was palestinian territory
You do realize those places are not in Israel, don't you?

until 'annexed by israel (read: stolen)
"Stolen" from who? Would you like to share with the rest of us how you think those areas camne under Israeli control in the first place?

canada is still settling several land claims issues in whiuch first nations communities are typically given hundreds of millions of dollars and large tracts of crown land.
Seems like a bum deal, doesn't it? Why aren't thery given the good land, like Toronto? Why don't all non-first nation Canadians go back to their countries of origin?

the palestinains are not compensated in like manner.
Who's compensating Jewish citizens evicted from Arab countries after the formation of Israel in 1948? And shouldn't the Arab countries who launched a war of genocide against the Jews be the ones to compensate their fellow Arabs for the consequences of their failed attempt at genocide?

Don't you think Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc etc have responsibility for their actions?
 
We all know "Jewish state" means that it is a refuge state for Jewish people, and all Jews can emigrate there if they wish. You seem to think there's something more to it than that. Can you list the legal inequities between Jews and non-Jews in Israel?

I admit I'm just playing with you, I and everyone else knows you cannot make such a list. That's why you resort to playing silly games with innuendos and hints.

thunder did a great job of listing inequities earlier in this thread.
like always, any points that cast israel in an unfavourable light were ignored by the usual gang if israeli apologists.
 
We all know "Jewish state" means that it is a refuge state for Jewish people, and all Jews can emigrate there if they wish. You seem to think there's something more to it than that. Can you list the legal inequities between Jews and non-Jews in Israel?

I admit I'm just playing with you, I and everyone else knows you cannot make such a list. That's why you resort to playing silly games with innuendos and hints.
Ok Jewish state just means that Jews are free to migrate there. It means nothing more. Thats about it?

for example.....when "skeptic" states that the "jewish state" could be destroyed demographically. Is he wrong? (assuming "jewish state" only refers to immigration rules?)
 
Ok Jewish state just means that Jews are free to migrate there. It means nothing more. Thats about it?

for example.....when "skeptic" states that the "jewish state" could be destroyed demographically. Is he wrong? (assuming "jewish state" only refers to immigration rules?)
Still can't find a single item for your list, eh? :rolleyes:
 
Didn't you read the report? If you did, you'd find that none of it was because of the way Jews and non-Jews are treated in Israel.

you must have missed this bit...

"Although they have full political rights, the roughly one million Arab citizens of Israel (about 19 percent of the population) receive inferior education, housing, and social services relative to the Jewish population."
 
Still can't find a single item for your list, eh? :rolleyes:
why did you post this as an answer to my post. It doesn't address anything in that post. Do you have difficulty in commenting on "skeptic's" talk about the jewish state being destroyed demographically? It appears it is at odds with your immigration policy only definition.
 
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you must have missed this bit...

"Although they have full political rights, the roughly one million Arab citizens of Israel (about 19 percent of the population) receive inferior education, housing, and social services relative to the Jewish population."
The same can be said of Aborigenes in Australia. But there is no legal basis for this, is there?

why did you post this as an answer to my post. It doesn't address anything in that post. Do you have difficulty in commenting on "skeptic's" talk about the jewish state being destroyed demographically? It appears it is at odds with you immigration policy only definition.
Why are you assking me to explain what Skeptic was talking about? Didn't you claim Israel would start nuking places if the Arab population got too large?
 
The same can be said of Aborigenes in Australia. But there is no legal basis for this, is there?


Why are you assking me to explain what Skeptic was talking about? Didn't you claim Israel would start nuking places if the Arab population got too large?




I am asking you if skeptic is wrong.....he says the jewish state can be destroyed demographically. do you agree? (remembering that your definition of jewish state doesn't include anything about demographics)
 
I am asking you if skeptic is wrong.....he says the jewish state can be destroyed demographically. do you agree? (remembering that your definition of jewish state doesn't include anything about demographics)
I'm not going to get sidetracked by your mindless drivel. Are you going to demonstrate different legal status between Jews and Non-Jews in Israel ort not?

The smart money says "not".
 
I'm not going to get sidetracked by your mindless drivel. Are you going to demonstrate different legal status between Jews and Non-Jews in Israel ort not?

The smart money says "not".
I'd like to get some money on "not" as well...

I don't see that the issue I introduced to this thread and have spent over a page attempting to discuss becomes a "sidetrack" when you choose to attempt to send someone on an errand to compile a list.

you also need to refresh yourself on the membership agreement regarding civility.
 
I'd like to get some money on "not" as well...
Well it's good to see you've retracted your claim and we won't have to watch you desperately try to allege that there's legal differences in Israel between Jews and non-Jews.
 
Well it's good to see you've retracted your claim and we won't have to watch you desperately try to allege that there's legal differences in Israel between Jews and non-Jews.
I don't think he's retracting his claim. He's just declining to support his claim, cuz, you know, nudge nudge, wink wink, grin grin.
 
no....in australia, the aborigines are the second-class citizens, just as in canada and the u.s., aboriginal canadians and americans are the second-class citizens.

Point to a single law that relegates Aborigines to second class status.

Actually don't bother. I can see things have been sidetracked enough already.
 
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I don't think he's retracting his claim. He's just declining to support his claim, cuz, you know, nudge nudge, wink wink, grin grin.
no .....I don't know. can you explain what "nudge nudge, wink wink, grin grin." means? Another alternative is that you could participate in a discussion on the topic I was asking about... Wildcat appears disinterested in commenting on it...maybe you could help him out.

It goes like this..

"I am asking you if skeptic is wrong.....he says the jewish state can be destroyed demographically. do you agree? (remembering that your definition of jewish state doesn't include anything about demographics)"
 
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