Insulting Ad about Nurses by Johnson and Johnson

[Skeptic Ginger]

I s'pose that makes sense to you city folk with your fancy skyscrapers ....

Or Paul Simon fans.

 

[Emet]

I even mentioned to my husband that pretty soon they'll issue rabbits' feet when you're admitted.

Now that's just plain cruel.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I s'pose that makes sense to you city folk with your fancy skyscrapers

Country bumpkin!

Yup. I think I mentioned early in this thread that I could understand your position. I don't share it, but I can understand it. The ad is subtle enough in my eyes that I find it hard to get riled up about.

I'm not riled up about it, personally. But I do see the point SG's making and I pretty much agree with it. A photo (any photo - it's bound to be a loved one, duh) would've been just as symbolic. Or something Dickensian like half-a-locket, maybe. But a four leaf clover or rabbit's foot is superstition. As you mentioned upthread, what if it was a Star of David or Crucifix? I think those with an atheist bent in this thread would not be disagreeing with SG. (Well, except for those - you know who you are guys - who didn't leave their baggage at the check room on the way in).

I think the subtlety of the ad is the cause of the confusion. Knowing a few folks in advertising, I'd say that was intentional. As I said above (pages ago), I think that makes it a successful commercial. (I could think of worse things for the image of the nursing profession than having a thread like this catch the public eye. It's fairly informative if you glide past the bitchiness of some of the peanut gallery.

I also agree with you on another element. Even the term "stacking the deck" can have multiple interpretations: If I catch you stacking the deck when we're playing five card draw, you're going to draw back a bloody stump. (Well, if you've made me some of those pizzas, maybe just a slap on the wrist.) If Randi stacks the deck to make a particular trick work, I'm going to smile as I enjoy the trick. If you stack the deck by the ordering of the information in a Powerpoint presentation, I may not care a wink.

 

[Beth]

Yup. I think I mentioned early in this thread that I could understand your position. I don't share it, but I can understand it. The ad is subtle enough in my eyes that I find it hard to get riled up about.

This is basically where I'm at.

I am particularly aware of media messages, especially media messages that portray the image of nursing. You've read some of my posts on the science of nursing. The media image of nursing has been damaging to our profession for a long time. Like the media portrayals of blacks and Native Americans, it's well known how problematic the media image of a group can be.
-

You make some good points. I wouldn't have given it a second thought if I had seen it before reading this thread, but I think you do have a valid concern here.

As is now being repeated in the thread, I see the message that the charm stacks the deck and the compassion is shown but not what the 'stack the deck' comment refers to. Others see the compassion as the thing that is stacking the deck. I would add that since the patient is apparently unconscious, he would be unaware of the compassionate gesture, leaving the superstitious gesture as the means of stacking the deck.

He's unconscious, but I thought he seemed to grip the charm a bit. I took it as a subtle indication that he was heartened by having it. And I think Myriad has a solid point regarding the difficulty of crafting a message that meets all the other constraints.

I don't deny it, I was objecting to the stereotype magical thinking predominates in nursing compared to say, matched controls. People are superstitious. I wouldn't expect nurses to be more or less so and I was objecting to the unsupported claim they were more so than other similar groups of people.

I'll support this point. I've not noticed nurses being any more or less superstitious than any other profession nor have I seen or read any other evidence of it.

I conclude the message which concerns me is one J&J was unaware they were sending. That is common with communication. People are often unaware of unintended messages in the things they say. For example, it took a long time to get nurses to quit saying, "I'm just a nurse". They didn't recognize the message "just a" communicated.

Yes. There is evidence that such subtle nomenclature can shape our thinking and perception more than we are typically conscious of.

It's your profession. If you don't like they way they are portraying it in these ads, it makes sense to let them know. Maybe next time, somebody on whatever board it is that approves such ads will think about the way you perceived this one.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thank you Beth for the comments and for reminding me why I like you.

 

[CaveDave]

"Cheating the odds" was not my choice of terms, but those of the poster I responded to. In common usage "stacking the deck" does not have to mean "cheating", but rather anything that can tilt the odds in one's favor. I "stack the deck" in my dissertation by knowing the professional passions of my committee members and playing to those passions where possible in my dissertation and its defense. That's not cheating; that's using emotional intelligence.
But "cheating" is nothing more than a red herring here. The real issue is whether the ad is promoting woo or showing that compassion is an important part of nursing and a trait highly valued by patients (contrast this with many people's views of doctors - cold, clinical, uncaring). The ad showed us a scenario where a harried ER nurse took the time to show compassion for her patient. Yes, that is intended to play to our emotions and not our intellect, and yes, the choice of a good luck charm as a vehicle for that compassion may not have been the best, but the message the ad sends is not that nurses are woo-prone, but rather than nurses care. For the most part I think the ad works.

I'm not really sure how that is responsive to my post. I was just laying out my thoughts on why some scientifically proficient people I know who are in the medical field are also very prone to magical thinking. I believe it helps them deal with the emotional trauma. Take it or leave it, it was prefaced with the word anecdote.

But, to your larger complaint: I've seen several of these videos now and taken as a whole I think they show the profession in a very positive light. Given this "body of work" I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Either that, or I would have to assume that J&J is portraying nurses as ageist because one made a joke about the younger buddy being the patient's father or sexist because the one assumed that girls require singing to get through a scary procedure.

Argumentum ad absurdum? Yep. Once you gloss over the fact that the nurse "stacks the deck" by merely returning the patient's key chain, you've moved the argument to that arena. The ad shows an act of compassion just like all of the other ads in this series not a magical incantation interrupting the care of the patient. To take this one ad to task so severely seems a bit out of context to me.

Dave

 

[fls]

Fascinating (if you'll forgive the over generalization): You are in a profession where care and compassion are less within the image and I'm in one where science is less within the image.

Ah, it makes sense when you put it that way.

I totally get where you are coming from. I've learned from your perception of the compassion aspect in medicine. I'm curious if you've learned from my perception of the science aspect in nursing.

Well, yes and no. A lot of my exposure to nurses was in Canada where the minimum requirement was a bachelors degree (rather than an associate degree), almost all of my practice was in academic/university/teaching settings (I'm thinking that the differences between nurses in teaching centers and those in the community may be similar to the differences between physicians in those settings), there were a fair number of nurses who were also in my graduate public health program, and I worked with nurses on research projects. So I was already inclined to see the science aspect in nursing.

Linda

 

[truethat]

Country bumpkin!



I'm not riled up about it, personally. But I do see the point SG's making and I pretty much agree with it. A photo (any photo - it's bound to be a loved one, duh) would've been just as symbolic. Or something Dickensian like half-a-locket, maybe. But a four leaf clover or rabbit's foot is superstition. As you mentioned upthread, what if it was a Star of David or Crucifix? I think those with an atheist bent in this thread would not be disagreeing with SG. (Well, except for those - you know who you are guys - who didn't leave their baggage at the check room on the way in).

I think the subtlety of the ad is the cause of the confusion. Knowing a few folks in advertising, I'd say that was intentional. As I said above (pages ago), I think that makes it a successful commercial. (I could think of worse things for the image of the nursing profession than having a thread like this catch the public eye. It's fairly informative if you glide past the bitchiness of some of the peanut gallery.

I also agree with you on another element. Even the term "stacking the deck" can have multiple interpretations: If I catch you stacking the deck when we're playing five card draw, you're going to draw back a bloody stump. (Well, if you've made me some of those pizzas, maybe just a slap on the wrist.) If Randi stacks the deck to make a particular trick work, I'm going to smile as I enjoy the trick. If you stack the deck by the ordering of the information in a Powerpoint presentation, I may not care a wink.

I am an atheist and I think Skeptic sounds hysterical over a minor issue.

 

[Prometheus]

I'm late and haven't read the whole thread yet, so apologies if someone else has said so, but my first impression of the ad was that the nurse was displaying as much sympathy as compassion by humoring the patient's belief in charms despite her more rational point of view. Only on second thought did I note that probably SG's interpretation was more likely. OTOH I think a reasonable case could still be made that this ad is reaching out to a general population that finds comfort in such foolishness and implying, "Whatever your beliefs, come find out what nursing is really all about."

As an amusing side-note, I once found a four-leaf clover while walking to catch a train home from college. I stopped to pick it, then went in to a nearby store to buy some plastic wrap and a card to preserve it. I missed my train by about 30 seconds and had to wait 6 hours for the next one.

 

[Prometheus]

I think the ad developers made a very careful choice of what object to use, and nine out of ten ad agencies would make the same choice given the same basic outline of the ad, e.g. that the patient is an adult male. They chose the four leaf clover because it's simple and iconic, like just about everything in video ads.

Imagine trying to compose the ad with a picture of his wife instead of the four leaf clover. Can we see what the picture shows on video? We need a zoom-in, extra time and extra motion. How do we even know it's his wife? What was the picture doing there? Why put it in his hand, it's non-tactile paper and wouldn't it just get crushed? All these distractions would be introduced, or extra time spent setting the scene up to avoid them, when every second is at a premium.

The phrasing "stacking the deck" isn't perfect but what other wording would be? Again, there's about one second to get the idea across, and I always hesitate to criticize wording unless I can think of better wording under the same constraints. In this case I can't so far. (I'll keep thinking about it though. "...stacking every +1 modifier I can" might work, if everyone were D&D players, but even that's more than a second longer.)

The ad director's task was something like, show a nurse performing a not medically necessary but thoughtful and compassionate act that's visually clear within a few seconds after also showing her performing emergency medical procedures, with her voice-over describing a philosophy of care that calls attention to both aspects in turn. Not easy.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Okay, I've finished reading the thread now, and I have to say that, while SG is making an important point, and it is worth airing out how subtle messages can have adverse side effects, Myriad's post above is the one I most agree with.

I think that this is an extremely well-crafted and highly effective ad. I also think that the particular message SG is worried about, while certainly present, is probably not the one that most members of the general public will remember about this ad later on. Rather, the stickiest^* take-away from this ad is exactly the one I believe J&J intends to communicate: That nurses see the patient through every part of the healing process from beginning to end, they can be relied on to care about the whole patient, and--most central to J&J's campaign--they're just like 'you' (where 'you' is a typical young member of the general public trying to decide on a career). The very aspects that bother SG--the focus on the charm conected with the language 'stacking the deck'--are integral to making this core message stick, but the offending message they also convey is not so strong nor so memorable.

Were I an executive at J&J in charge of this ad campaign, I would thank SG for voicing her concerns, I would absolutely keep them in mind in making decisions about future ads, but I wouild nevertheless continue to run this ad.


^*BTW The book I linked to here, which I've recently finished reading, is an excellent discussion on communicating messages powerfully--well worth a read for anyone interested in the topic.

 

[Pup]

and--most central to J&J's campaign--they're just like 'you' (where 'you' is a typical young member of the general public trying to decide on a career).

Absolutely. Because the typical person believes or wants to believe that good luck charms work, so it's something they understand on an emotional level. No argument with you there.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I'm late and haven't read the whole thread yet, so apologies if someone else has said so, but my first impression of the ad was that the nurse was displaying as much sympathy as compassion by humoring the patient's belief in charms despite her more rational point of view. Only on second thought did I note that probably SG's interpretation was more likely. OTOH I think a reasonable case could still be made that this ad is reaching out to a general population that finds comfort in such foolishness and implying, "Whatever your beliefs, come find out what nursing is really all about."

As an amusing side-note, I once found a four-leaf clover while walking to catch a train home from college. I stopped to pick it, then went in to a nearby store to buy some plastic wrap and a card to preserve it. I missed my train by about 30 seconds and had to wait 6 hours for the next one.

as an addition to your side note, my wife finds four leafed clovers all the time. She has that pattern set in her head: I could look for a half day and not find one; she looks down casually and picks 'em up in seconds. She's found two five-leafers in the last month. It's galling. Put that next to your wasted six hours and feel the burn...

and now back to the nurse bashing.

 

[truethat]

I'm late and haven't read the whole thread yet, so apologies if someone else has said so, but my first impression of the ad was that the nurse was displaying as much sympathy as compassion by humoring the patient's belief in charms despite her more rational point of view. Only on second thought did I note that probably SG's interpretation was more likely. OTOH I think a reasonable case could still be made that this ad is reaching out to a general population that finds comfort in such foolishness and implying, "Whatever your beliefs, come find out what nursing is really all about."

As an amusing side-note, I once found a four-leaf clover while walking to catch a train home from college. I stopped to pick it, then went in to a nearby store to buy some plastic wrap and a card to preserve it. I missed my train by about 30 seconds and had to wait 6 hours for the next one.

I really think that's the point of the ad. To me it's aimed at drawing in people who might not consider themselves "science folks"

The idea that this ad is aimed at promoting the use of good luck charms in nursing is utterly laughable.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.....

The idea that this ad is aimed at promoting the use of good luck charms in nursing is utterly laughable.

Will this straw man never die?

 

[Prometheus]

Will this straw man never die?

I didn't mean to suggest you thought the ad was aimed at promoting such an interpretation. I meant that I don't think it even does so by accident. That message is present, but I believe that the ad is constructed such that that message is not what most people will remember about seeing it, and--as evidenced in this thread--many people won't even see it at all.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I didn't mean to suggest you thought the ad was aimed at promoting such an interpretation. I meant that I don't think it even does so by accident. That message is present, but I believe that the ad is constructed such that that message is not what most people will remember about seeing it, and--as evidenced in this thread--many people won't even see it at all.

Your post did not echo that of Truethat.

 

[truethat]

Your post did not echo that of Truethat.

Well I'm saying he's saying what I'm saying. You keep saying it's a straw man. Perhaps you want to examine what you think you are saying and what you are interpreting.


Several people in this thread have shared their interpretations of the ad and also acknowledged how by a stretch we can understand what you are saying and how you COULD come up with that interpretation but that it doesn't seem the intention of the ad makers.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well I'm saying he's saying what I'm saying. You keep saying it's a straw man. Perhaps you want to examine what you think you are saying and what you are interpreting.


Several people in this thread have shared their interpretations of the ad and also acknowledged how by a stretch we can understand what you are saying and how you COULD come up with that interpretation but that it doesn't seem the intention of the ad makers.

Straw man: distorting someone'e argument then arguing against the distortion instead of the actual argument.

truthat: "The idea that this ad is aimed at promoting the use of good luck charms in nursing is utterly laughable."

The ad is not "aimed at promoting the use of good luck charms in nursing" nor did I ever say it was.

You are being ridiculous. The issue is not that complicated.


There is an implied message in this ad that results from the way a DIFFERENT INTENDED MESSAGE was presented. It is doubtful J&J noticed the UNINTENDED MESSAGE. Certainly it is doubtful they intended the unintended message, such is the nature of messages contained in framing unless the framer is aware of such messages and purposefully manipulates them.

Politicians purposefully manipulate message framing. A tax cut is called tax relief, implying you need to be saved from taxes. Pro-lifers are not pro-life, they are anti-abortion. Pro-choicers are not pro-abortion, they are pro-individual choice. Almost every political answer or slogan includes purposeful framing.

While many messages are purposefully framed to influence the reaction to the message, many additional messages occur with framing which were not intended. Someone who said, "I'm just a nurse" probably never intended to demean nursing. They would have been unaware that the way they framed the statement contained the unintended message.


This ad, whether you hear the unintended message or not, contains one. Even if you are not influenced by the unintended message it nonetheless is contained in the ad. The ad says nurses believe in science, but nurses also believe good luck charms stack the deck. I don't doubt the message J&J INTENDED was, compassion stacks the deck.

It is the unintended message, like saying "just a nurse", that undermines the professional image of nursing.

 

[truethat]

The ad "contains one" in your opinion. Others don't see it the way you do. Why is this so difficult for you to accept???????

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The ad "contains one" in your opinion. Others don't see it the way you do. Why is this so difficult for you to accept???????

Is there some reason you don't consider it possible to view the ad more than one way? You might want to skim this thread. Some people see the message that concerns me, nursing is evidence based but including superstition is also part of nursing. Some see the message as, nursing includes science and compassion.