Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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Clayton Moore said:
Do you have a list, in sequence, of the first 22-25 vaccines a baby/toddler gets in the USA before she is two years old?
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If you are going to lecture people on the safety and necessity of vaccines, shouldn't you already know that?

If not, why should anyone believe a word you say?
 
Tomblvd said:
If you are going to lecture people on the safety and necessity of vaccines, shouldn't you already know that?

If not, why should anyone believe a word you say?
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That's not how it works. ;)
 
Just watched BBC World News America, and they had a story about vaccination programs in Sierra Leone. At the end of the report, they had a quote from a worker for a global vaccination program, that 1.7 million children die of vaccine-preventable diseases every year. I assume most of those deaths are in the Third World at this point, but we shouldn't be complacent in the First World, and we really should try harder to expand vaccination programs in every part of the world.
 
Do you have a list, in sequence, of the first 22-25 vaccines a baby/toddler gets in the USA before she is two years old?
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Yes. Do you have a point?
Edit: more here.
 
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And now you have one -- the CDC recommends less than half the number you claim, the vast majority of which diseases can result in death.

What now?
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You didn't ask for individual doses of the various vaccines, you asked for vaccines.

Regardless, what's next?
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I think Clayton is going by the anti-vaxxer assumption that it's dangerous to be given too many vaccines at a time. This has, to my layman knowledge, not been demonstrated.
 
Do you realize how many different gases newborn babies inhale within the first two DAYS of their life?
 
Even with the longer life expectancy vaccines have given me, I'm not sure I will last long enough to see Clayton Moore get to the point. Please, CM, just put forward your argument in one post and let it be quickly beaten to death by the facts, rather than torture it over days in this fashion...

Okay, I will walk open eyed into your cleverly baited trap; children get a very modest series of vaccines (and booster immunizations) spread over 24 months. I presume CM views this as a veritable biological onslaught that will leave that child a weakened, hollow, destroyed shell of a human being (a view acquired, no doubt, though perusing anti-vax websites).

Do you have any idea the number of antigens that child is exposed to in the environment in the first month of his life, compared to the few they will see through vaccinations? This is how one's immune system is trained "naturally." There are bacteria and viruses, dirt and dust, protozoa and pollen, all around babies (even those hidden away at home). Just being born usually means being exposed to the bacteria in Mom's feces. The child's B and T cells, macrophages and dendritic cells leap into action to catalog the thousands or millions of these antigens, and to respond if required.

The vaccine schedule you are concerned about simply makes certain that among the countless antigens that the child will be exposed to in the first two years of their life are ten very important ones: the ones from dangerous disease organisms, but without the dangerous diseases themselves. Then, if they are exposed to the actual disease later, they will be protected.

Do you think 10 more antigens can somehow exhaust the kid's immune system, compared to the 10000 antigens the kid gets from digging in the backyard? Finally, please don't tell me vaccines have mercury and dead fetuses in them; I've seen that argument refuted many times before; vaccines are a lot more pure than 99% of the things a baby will be putting in their mouth the first two years of their life. CM: I think you are a bright person, but with the wrong crusade.
 
Giordano said:
Even with the longer life expectancy vaccines have given me, I'm not sure I will last long enough to see Clayton Moore get to the point. Please, CM, just put forward your argument in one post and let it be quickly beaten to death by the facts, rather than torture it over days in this fashion...
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The fact is that HIV in the US was narrowed down to a single immigrant from Haiti. And HIV is a disease. Autism is a condition that has relatively recently appeared in increasing numbers globally/world wide to children/toddlers around the age of 2 usually younger.

Cause unknown.
But it is not vaccines.

Probable cause of the increases?
Better diagnosis capability.
Like conditions now being diagnosed as within the autism spectrum.
Children predisposed towards autism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism
Heritability contributes about 90% of the risk of a child developing autism, but the genetics of autism are complex and typically it is unclear which genes are responsible.
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Even if the above 90% is correct how can it be triggered globally? What is happening to the baby in Japan, New York, Australia, and London?

Something is causing a significant increase in cases of autism within a narrow window of about 6 months to a year.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The fact is that HIV in the US was narrowed down to a single immigrant from Haiti. And HIV is a disease. Autism is a condition that has relatively recently appeared in increasing numbers globally/world wide to children/toddlers around the age of 2 usually younger.

Cause unknown.
But it is not vaccines.

Probable cause of the increases?
Better diagnosis capability.
Like conditions now being diagnosed as within the autism spectrum.
Children predisposed towards autism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism


Even if the above 90% is correct how can it be triggered globally? What is happening to the baby in Japan, New York, Australia, and London?

Something is causing a significant increase in cases of autism within a narrow window of about 6 months to a year.
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And Clayton quickly changes the subject........
 
I don't care a freaking tinker's damn about whether Autism causes vaccines.
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Something is causing a significant increase in cases of autism within a narrow window of about 6 months to a year.
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:boggled:

Is your account used by several different people?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The fact is that HIV in the US was narrowed down to a single immigrant from Haiti. And HIV is a disease. Autism is a condition that has relatively recently appeared in increasing numbers globally/world wide to children/toddlers around the age of 2 usually younger.

Cause unknown.
But it is not vaccines.

Probable cause of the increases?
Better diagnosis capability.
Like conditions now being diagnosed as within the autism spectrum.
Children predisposed towards autism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism


Even if the above 90% is correct how can it be triggered globally? What is happening to the baby in Japan, New York, Australia, and London?

Something is causing a significant increase in cases of autism within a narrow window of about 6 months to a year.
Click to expand...

I have a sneaking suspicion that children exist globally.
 
Indeed, CM does like to change the subject. I'm not even certain what the HIV reference is meant to imply. But sticking with the apparent "increase" in autism: clearly a lot of it can be attributed to better diagnosis; perhaps all of it. But let's go with CM's argument that to some extent there is a real increase in this disease that began a few decades ago. Reading the rest of this thread, and knowing the broad scientific consensus, it is clear that one thing NOT responsible is vaccination. I could make a better argument that an increase in global carbon dioxide, or in cell phone use, or in the grey squirrel population (none of which have been tested in regard to autism), is responsible than the increase in vaccinations (which has been tested and eliminated as a cause). CM, if you care about these children, then you should be urging parents to support research into other possible causes, not getting upset about vaccination.
 
Do people eat more fish now than in the past? Heck who knows what could be correlated with the rise in Autism.
 
Giordano said:
Indeed, CM does like to change the subject. I'm not even certain what the HIV reference is meant to imply. But sticking with the apparent "increase" in autism: clearly a lot of it can be attributed to better diagnosis; perhaps all of it. But let's go with CM's argument that to some extent there is a real increase in this disease that began a few decades ago. Reading the rest of this thread, and knowing the broad scientific consensus, it is clear that one thing NOT responsible is vaccination. I could make a better argument that an increase in global carbon dioxide, or in cell phone use, or in the grey squirrel population (none of which have been tested in regard to autism), is responsible than the increase in vaccinations (which has been tested and eliminated as a cause). CM, if you care about these children, then you should be urging parents to support research into other possible causes, not getting upset about vaccination.
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The HIV reference was to show the value of record keeping and the ability to identify virus strains. Science.

BTW Autism is a condition not a disease.

Inherited tendencies toward a condition do not appear world wide.

The only thing/body intrusion all these children have in common in their environment are the vaccines.
 
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