Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Dave Rogers said:
Do you have a cite for that assertion, or is it "just obvious" that structural steel cannot lose all structural strength due to, for example, the fracture of plastic hinges at the pivot points of a multi-storey buckle? And have you explained this point to - for example - Zdenek Bazant, and pointed out how much more valid your expertise is than his?

In fact, do you even know what the terms "plastic hinge", "multi-storey buckle" or "fracture" mean?

Dave

ETA: And, to get back on topic, ignorami making sweeping assertions about complex topics they don't even begin to understand won't stop the clock; that's one of the oldest forms of argument from the truth movement.
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Bažant's analysis led him to a four-point failure scenario.

1. Severed and significantly deflected columns at the point of impact redistributed stress to other columns, exhausting their load capacity.
2. Because insulation was stripped from many structural steel members, the jet-fuel induced inferno heated remaining columns up to 600°C, causing them to lose up to 85% of their strength.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdeněk_Bažant

Could you get a few none foreigners who aren't older than dirt?
 
Clayton Moore said:
The fires. What a freaking lying canard.
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What precisely do you consider a lie about the fires? Do you say there were no fires? Or are you saying that uncontrolled fires on ot least 10 floors is inconsequential, insignificant, no danger to structural integrity?
Please be specific!
 
Clayton Moore said:
Bažant's analysis led him to a four-point failure scenario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdeněk_Bažant
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Interestingly, you only quote two of the four. Why?
These four points are of course Wikipedia's take. Did Bazant himself make four points explicitly? Do you know? Did you read Bazant's paper(s)? Yes or no will do

Clayton Moore said:
Could you get a few none foreigners who aren't older than dirt?
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Try the guys at Purdue (the third-best civil engineering school in the country). They did a full simulation of the airplane impact at one of the twin towers and concluded that plane crashes and fires brought it down. Do you agree with the full-blooded Americans at Purdue?

Northwestern probably hired Zdenek Bazant, because he is one of the world-leading scholars in his field (from your source: "the world leader in research on scaling in the mechanics of solids"). What are your credentials.

Are you arguing that US universities should not hire the best academics in the world in their respective fields because foreigners can't be trusted? Yes or no will do.

Are you saying that experience is a bad thing in academics and engineering? The younger they are, the better? Yes or no will do.
Clayton, how old are you?
 
Oystein said:
Try the guys at Purdue (the third-best civil engineering school in the country). They did a full simulation of the airplane impact at one of the twin towers and concluded that plane crashes and fires brought it down. Do you agree with the full-blooded Americans at Purdue?
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Link?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Link?
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University News:
http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/news/news_wtc.cfm

Abstract:
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase3/EP-page1.pdf

Animations and stills:
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase3/

[ETA]And here some commentary on the effect of fires from the Purdue lead researcher:
http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2007a/070612HoffmannWTC.html
Mete Sozen said:
"Consequently, much of the fireproofing insulation was ripped off the structure. Even if all of the columns and girders had survived the impact - an unlikely event - the structure would fail as the result of a buckling of the columns. The heat from an ordinary office fire would suffice to soften and weaken the unprotected steel. Evaluation of the effects of the fire on the core column structure, with the insulation removed by the impact, showed that collapse would follow whatever the number of columns cut at the time of the impact."
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[/ETA]

Now how about you answer a question? Oh and try to make it fit the answer and be as exhaustive as my reply was!
Let me repeat:

What precisely do you consider a lie about the fires? Do you say there were no fires? Or are you saying that uncontrolled fires on ot least 10 floors is inconsequential, insignificant, no danger to structural integrity?
Please be specific!

Clayton Moore said:
Bažant's analysis led him to a four-point failure scenario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdeněk_Bažant
Click to expand...
Interestingly, you only quote two of the four. Why?
These four points are of course Wikipedia's take. Did Bazant himself make four points explicitly? Do you know? Did you read Bazant's paper(s)? Yes or no will do


Do you agree with the full-blooded Americans at Purdue?

Northwestern probably hired Zdenek Bazant, because he is one of the world-leading scholars in his field (from your source: "the world leader in research on scaling in the mechanics of solids"). What are your credentials?

Are you arguing that US universities should not hire the best academics in the world in their respective fields because foreigners can't be trusted? Yes or no will do.

Are you saying that experience is a bad thing in academics and engineering? The younger they are, the better? Yes or no will do.
Clayton, how old are you?



I bolded the questions I want answered. There were 8 specific questions to which I expected 8 specific answers.
You gave none.
Please improve on your act.
 
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Oystein said:
What precisely do you consider a lie about the fires? Do you say there were no fires? Or are you saying that uncontrolled fires on ot least 10 floors is inconsequential, insignificant, no danger to structural integrity?
Please be specific!
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I think this just may be a blanket denial of fire itself. Have you ever tried to cut a fire with a pair of scissors? No??? HA! Fire is an illusion then.

And another thing, while we are waiting for genuinely new stuff from the movement. Since this thread has a 'Lost In Space' theme, I think the Truth Movement should provide each of us with a Will Robinson robot. I could use one, and I've pitched battle with the truthers here and on another forum. I could calculate my time spent, apply an outrageous hourly rate and submit that as a bill - but nah. The robot will do. I don't like excessive paperwork.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Bažant's analysis led him to a four-point failure scenario.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdeněk_Bažant

Could you get a few none foreigners who aren't older than dirt?
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51464df0be4c523da.png
 
Clayton Moore said:
Could you get a few none foreigners who aren't older than dirt?
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Have you even looked at the list of people AE 911 Truth has that have "signed" their "petition"? You sure you want to go with the "none foreigners" and "older than dirt" hyperbole?

1,507 signee's at AE911Truth WORLDWIDE
1,600,000+ engineers EMPLOYED in the United States alone
140,000 architects EMPLOYED in the United States alone

It's funny you say "none foreigners" when one of the most typical truther meme's is "the rest of the world can see it, the US is the laughing stock blah blah blah" and here you are asking for a "none foreigner". ROFL.
 
Oz1976 said:
Have you even looked at the list of people AE 911 Truth has that have "signed" their "petition"? You sure you want to go with the "none foreigners" and "older than dirt" hyperbole?

1,507 signee's at AE911Truth WORLDWIDE
1,600,000+ engineers EMPLOYED in the United States alone
140,000 architects EMPLOYED in the United States alone

It's funny you say "none foreigners" when one of the most typical truther meme's is "the rest of the world can see it, the US is the laughing stock blah blah blah" and here you are asking for a "none foreigner". ROFL.
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:D

I think we should try to recruit Julie Andrews, she was a nun foreigner in that Sound of Music flick. Plus she's old.
 
Oystein said:
What precisely do you consider a lie about the fires? Do you say there were no fires? Or are you saying that uncontrolled fires on ot least 10 floors is inconsequential, insignificant, no danger to structural integrity?
Please be specific!
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How could fire spread to 10 floors? That's one thing.

Look at the videos. The fires were small. Most of WTC7 was pristine, same as both towers. Any heat to a steel column or beam is immediately shared/dissipated throughout the entire beam or column.

Structural failure doesn't become global structural failure. That's just stupid magic crap.

You do know that blow torches are used to "weaken" steel and that their RANGE of effectiveness is inches?
 
tempesta29 said:
Sure it would, but nothing will change the fact that industrial steel will always offer some minimal amount of resistance unless it is demolished. WTC 7 was clearly demolished.
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Could you post your numbers as to how much effect a "minimal amount of resistance" would translate to observable and if it falls within the range of error?
tempesta29 said:
Now if you demonstrated that WTC 7 never reached free fall we could talk.
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Why is this relevant?

Answer this and you will elevate yourself from "truther" to significant.


:rolleyes:
 
Clayton Moore said:
...
Structural failure doesn't become global structural failure. That's just stupid magic crap.

You do know that blow torches are used to "weaken" steel and that their RANGE of effectiveness is inches?
Click to expand...
Oh.

So what you're saying is, even controlled demolition could not have brought down WTC-1, 2 or 7 - not ever ever. In fact no building has ever been dropped by CD. We've been told that placed charges in a CD scenario cause structural failure, leading to global structural failure. The buildings that the shills have dropped over the decades with CD? Are still there. Light-bending mirrors hoodwinks us unwashed masses to think they're gone. Ha! No.
 
ConspiRaider said:
Oh.

So what you're saying is, even controlled demolition could not have brought down WTC-1, 2 or 7 - not ever ever. In fact no building has ever been dropped by CD. We've been told that placed charges in a CD scenario cause structural failure, leading to global structural failure. The buildings that the shills have dropped over the decades with CD? Are still there. Light-bending mirrors hoodwinks us unwashed masses to think they're gone. Ha! No.
Click to expand...

It was about fire, an office fire, weakening steel supports enough to cause a global collapse.

You can say the wonderful Gilda line now.
 
Clayton Moore said:
How could fire spread to 10 floors? That's one thing.

Look at the videos. The fires were small. Most of WTC7 was pristine, same as both towers. Any heat to a steel column or beam is immediately shared/dissipated throughout the entire beam or column.

Structural failure doesn't become global structural failure. That's just stupid magic crap.

You do know that blow torches are used to "weaken" steel and that their RANGE of effectiveness is inches?
Click to expand...

Ah. The kook espoused videos.
It's been explained.
In a document with lots of BIG words
Read the NIST Report.
BTW
'Blow' torches are used to -cut- steel not weaken it
 
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