ladmo
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The original point was that vaccines were mandatory... that still stands as being true. Don't try to rewrite history.
Vaccine/autism CT discussion
- Thread starter Clayton Moore
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excaza
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ladmo
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What you are afraid of is reconstructing the flow. Read posts #241; #309; and #313. That was the basis... then you hijacked the discussion with #327, when you incorrectly called me "anti-vaxxer. Your initial response in #327 but when you called me a name I went directly down to your level and the entire banter between you and I got out of control.
excaza
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I don't care what the basis is. It's irrelevant to your statement in post #334.
Boo-hoo. It's not my fault that you incorrectly interpreted my first statement and went off on some ridiculous hissy fit about how I wanted your kid to die. You're against mandatory vaccinations. You're an anti-vaxxer, my statement stands.
Banter? You flat out lied in post #334, which is the statement I took issue with. The only thing going on here is your refusal to either a.) admit you were wrong (which has been shown to you twice already) or b.) provide evidence showing that your assertion is correct. You can continue to try and deflect onto something else, but it doesn't make this go away.
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excaza
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No it doesn't I'm afraid. Because that was not your original comment.
You started out by stating they were mandatory, which is correct. You then followed up with a reply to beren after he asked why that was a problem by stating your sons anaphylaxis problems. Arisia and excaza pointed out that that wasn't a problem since there were always waivers for medical conditions.
You then proceeded into a ranty post about putting your sons life at risk...which is odd, because it had been pointed out that there were exemptions for medical conditions. Followed by your claim that there were no waivers. From where we ended up in the cycle of attempting to point out that there have always been exemptions for medical conditions.
And here we are...
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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It makes them tastier?
Travis
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It was never at issue whether they were mandatory. We all knew they were. We also insisted there were exemptions which was the thing in discussion. So, it seems, that it is now accepted that there have always been medical and religious exemptions. What more is now required?
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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Until he found out what 'tonto' meant.
tonto, -a
adjective
1. stupid (persona) (estúpido); silly (menos fuerte)
pero ¿seré tonto, -a? otra vez me he vuelto a confundir -> I must be stupid or something, I've gone and got it wrong again
nos toman por tontos -> they think we're idiots
¿estás tonto, -a? para qué me pegas? -> don't be stupid! what are you hitting me for?
ponerse tonto, -a -> to be difficult; (pesado, insistente) to get awkward (arrogante)
tonto, -a remate -> daft as a brush
beren
Graduate Poster
I am very confused now.
In what way would your sons life be at danger?
I originally thought it was due to allergy. However, since there is a specific medical exemption, that can't be it. Could it be you were making an illegitimate emotional argument to try to shut down dissent through guilt instead of dealing with facts? Nah.
You sure you have a choice to elect to have a choice?
I am very confused now.
In what way would your sons life be at danger?
I originally thought it was due to allergy. However, since there is a specific medical exemption, that can't be it. Could it be you were making an illegitimate emotional argument to try to shut down dissent through guilt instead of dealing with facts? Nah.
Care yo admit you were wrong yet?
beren
Graduate Poster
He wants the right to NOT KILL HIS SON. HOW DARE YOU TRY TO KILL HIS SON WITH YOUR LOGIC AND FACTS AND REASONING. YOU ARE A BAD BAD CHILD KILLER AND PROBABLY NECROPHILIAC PEDOPHILE!!
</parody>
He claims to want the right to choose. Fair enough, although I think that is wrong. But his example of why was that his son would be injured by the vaccines. That was proven to be a lie.
I take him for a "keep the gubmint out my life" type with a tenuous grasp on argumentation.
Can you please elaborate what you meant by "my son should die" if you didn't mean this:
If he had a medical condition, he could get a medical exemption to the vaccine. Simple. What were you shouting about your son "dying" for?
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Arisia
Graduate Poster
A philosophical exemption, apparently, even though his child could be covered by a medical exemption, exemptions which have existed in every state law mandating vaccinations for all children in order to attend public school since those mandatory vaccination laws came into effect.
I simply don’t understand the opposition to vaccination. Vaccination is one of the greatest success stories of modern medicine. It's all "natural," and uses the body's own healing power. It's the only form of "homeopathy" that actually works: a little bit of a substance now protects you from a fatal dose later. It could only be better if somehow you could combine it with crystal therapy, right? I suspect the only reason vaccination is rejected by alternative medicine is because it actually works…
When my children were first immunized, I was amazed by the depth of my feelings of overwhelming gratitude toward everyone who had helped develop the vaccines, from Pasteur, Salk, and Maurice Hilleman (look him up if you don't recognize the name) to the nameless technician who put the vaccine in the vial. They had spent their lives (in fact some had lost their lives from the diseases they studied) to protect MY kids from an early death. Two hundred years before, my kids could easily had died before their first birthday, choking their lives out from diphtheria, or stricken by tetanus, but now they were safe. They were safe because of a 150 years of rationality and the scientific method. Before I had children, I knew all that intellectually, but it really affected me viscerally only after I had my kids.
It truly upsets me when I hear the old, regurgitated lies and twisted factoids trotted out from the anti-vaccine sites. "Measles is no worst than the common cold." "No one gets that anymore." "It was only improved hygiene, not vaccinations that improved our life span." "Would you want to put mercury and cells from dead babies in you?"
I know what the world was like before vaccines. I know from the actual history and scientific reports. I don't need to take "Big Pharma's" word for it. I know from my own relatives what it was like as little as 60 years ago, when polio stalked the cities every summer, and the news would spread around the neighborhood when Johnny, the kid around the corner, came down with a headache, fever, and muscle pains. The questions would be asked from parent to parent. "Does Johnnie have polio?" "Will he recover with only a limp?" "Will he be in an iron lung for the rest of their life?" And the most frightening question of all to a parent, "When did Johnny last play with MY child?"
By the time I was born, Salk and Sabin, and all those researchers and doctors who came before them, had saved us from that. Vaccines aren't perfect. Several of the early vaccines had unintended viral contaminants. Some of the early Sabin vaccines were not quite attenuated enough and caused a few cases of polio. But they saved so many, many more people than they hurt. Which is the opposite of what can be said of the anti-vaccination movement.
When my children were first immunized, I was amazed by the depth of my feelings of overwhelming gratitude toward everyone who had helped develop the vaccines, from Pasteur, Salk, and Maurice Hilleman (look him up if you don't recognize the name) to the nameless technician who put the vaccine in the vial. They had spent their lives (in fact some had lost their lives from the diseases they studied) to protect MY kids from an early death. Two hundred years before, my kids could easily had died before their first birthday, choking their lives out from diphtheria, or stricken by tetanus, but now they were safe. They were safe because of a 150 years of rationality and the scientific method. Before I had children, I knew all that intellectually, but it really affected me viscerally only after I had my kids.
It truly upsets me when I hear the old, regurgitated lies and twisted factoids trotted out from the anti-vaccine sites. "Measles is no worst than the common cold." "No one gets that anymore." "It was only improved hygiene, not vaccinations that improved our life span." "Would you want to put mercury and cells from dead babies in you?"
I know what the world was like before vaccines. I know from the actual history and scientific reports. I don't need to take "Big Pharma's" word for it. I know from my own relatives what it was like as little as 60 years ago, when polio stalked the cities every summer, and the news would spread around the neighborhood when Johnny, the kid around the corner, came down with a headache, fever, and muscle pains. The questions would be asked from parent to parent. "Does Johnnie have polio?" "Will he recover with only a limp?" "Will he be in an iron lung for the rest of their life?" And the most frightening question of all to a parent, "When did Johnny last play with MY child?"
By the time I was born, Salk and Sabin, and all those researchers and doctors who came before them, had saved us from that. Vaccines aren't perfect. Several of the early vaccines had unintended viral contaminants. Some of the early Sabin vaccines were not quite attenuated enough and caused a few cases of polio. But they saved so many, many more people than they hurt. Which is the opposite of what can be said of the anti-vaccination movement.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
I simply don’t understand the opposition to vaccination. Vaccination is one of the greatest success stories of modern medicine...
(...)
...they saved so many, many more people than they hurt. Which is the opposite of what can be said of the anti-vaccination movement.
Nominated.
I think at least a part of it, as you say, is the ignorance on what these diseases actually do. Us youngsters (25 here) grew up in a sheltered world where modern medicine have mostly done made most of these horrific illnesses.
Anyone who thinks the polio vaccine is unneccessary should do a Google image search for "iron lung".
(...)
...they saved so many, many more people than they hurt. Which is the opposite of what can be said of the anti-vaccination movement.
Nominated.
I think at least a part of it, as you say, is the ignorance on what these diseases actually do. Us youngsters (25 here) grew up in a sheltered world where modern medicine have mostly done made most of these horrific illnesses.
Anyone who thinks the polio vaccine is unneccessary should do a Google image search for "iron lung".
Tomblvd
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You're right that ignorance of history is a big culprit. Most adults have never heard the heartbreaking hacking of whooping cough (scary, if you've never heard it before), or seen the braces of a polio victim. To them, they are ancient diseases we've somehow gotten rid of, that they never have to worry about.
Other know the dangers, but are leechers. They are more than happy to allow herd immunity to keep their families safe.
The ones that drive me most crazy are the "Big Pharma" conspiracy theorists. Somehow we are to believe that physicians and the pharmaceutical companies will make more money preventing diseases, instead of treating them. That's insane. A vaccine costs nothing compared to all the costs of admitting a child to the hospital for a week to treat them. My 13 yo daughter had her ankle operated on today and is spending the nite in the hospital as a precaution. She was the only child in the pediatric wing of a moderately large hospital.
No. Sick. Kids.
Somehow I don't think the physicians and pharma companies have thought this money-making scheme out too well.
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