No Fly zones over Libya?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...his_constitutional_power_in_libya_109952.html

In late September 1983, one month before the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, the Reagan administration continued to insist that the War Powers Act did not apply to the U.S. military presence in Lebanon.

''The administration wants our stamp of approval,'' said a young Sen. Joseph Biden, ''but it is unwilling to commit itself to our laws.''

About a quarter-century later, Sen. Barack Obama told The Boston Globe, "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

Today, Obama and Biden lead an administration engaged in a military conflict without legislative consent. The 1973 War Powers Resolution compels presidents to secure congressional approval within 60 days of U.S. military forces' "imminent involvement" or "introduction" into "hostilities." U.S. operations in Libya violated that deadline on Friday.

… snip …

The president argues the act is, well, inapplicable because the United States has moved to a limited role. "U.S. participation" in Libya, the president wrote, has been limited to "intelligence, logistical support, and search and rescue assistance" as well as American aircraft assisting "in the suppression and destruction of air defenses in support of the no-fly zone" and "precision strikes by unmanned aerial vehicles ... in support of the NATO-led coalition's efforts."

Yet NATO's supreme allied commander, Adm. James Stavridis, is an active-duty U.S. officer. The act does exempt "deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces." But "suppression and destruction" are hardly that.

"I can only suggest that if the War Powers Act is not invoked under these kinds of conditions in Lebanon, then it is worthless," Democratic Sen. Lloyd Bentsen said on the Senate floor in 1983.

Is Bentsen's point any less relevant today?
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The hypocrisy of modern democrats is absolutely stunning.

And so far, so is the wimpiness of many republicans.
 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...own-the-war-powers-act-gauntlet-on-libya.html

In a resolution to be voted on in the House tomorrow, Boehner is giving the president two weeks – until the Pentagon Appropriations bill comes up – to either:

a) Ask for authorization for the military intervention in Libya, or

b) Figure out how to disengage the US from the NATO operation in Libya.

The resolution states: “The President has not sought, and Congress has not provided, authorization for the introduction or continued involvement of the United States Armed Forces in Libya. Congress has the constitutional prerogative to withhold funding for any unauthorized use of the United States Armed Forces, including for unauthorized activities regarding Libya.”

Boehner is explicitly and formally stating that the president did not check the box on the War Powers Act before sending the US military to intervene in Libya.
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:popcorn1
 
Gaddafi will fall in a few weeks, according to this

COLONEL Muammar Gaddafi's regime is close to collapse and his army is suffering hundreds of desertions every day, according to generals who have fled Libya and plan to fight alongside the rebels. In exclusive interviews with The Sunday Times, two generals and a colonel who have sought refuge in Italy said Colonel Gaddafi's military capacity had shrunk to just a fifth of its strength, and predicted he would fall from power within weeks.
“Thousands of members of the armed forces have defected or deserted, especially over the past two weeks. There are defections every day. Everyone who gets an opportunity grabs it,” said General Melud Massoud Halassa.
Eight defectors - five generals, two colonels and a more junior officer - were extracted from Libya via Tunisia and brought to Rome with the help of the Italian foreign intelligence service.
They were confident that the regime was crumbling. “Gaddafi will fall in a few weeks' time, morale is so bad both in the army and in the population,” said General Halassa, who defected a week ago with his wife and five children. He said rebel and NATO attacks as well as shortages of food and fuel had demoralised Colonel Gaddafi's forces.
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egslim said:
I'm more worried about the rebels, than about finishing off Gadaffi.

With Gadaffi gone, the rebels still have to establish a stable government in control of the country. They haven't even managed to unify their military command while fighting Gadaffi.

It's quite possible the government will have either no control of large parts of the country, or for different rebel factions to fight each other over control of the government.

I wouldn't be surprised if the endresult is a new dictator with a token-parliament.
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Doesn't matter- the Anglo/US axis likes (compliant) dictators.
 
Was surprised to see these photographs taken by a German while in Libya. They show a pro-American look to them.

"Photos from Freedom"
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/06/05/photos-from-freedom/

Thomas von der Osten-Sacken from the German NGO “WADI” has been a consistent voice for liberty and democracy in the Middle East. I have stumbled across Thomas in Iraq and Qatar, but wish I had been able to accompany him during his latest work in Libya. He has begun publishing photos he took from a recent trip to Benghazi. Too often, critics accuse American advocates for freedom of cherry-picking or, at the very least, neglecting to realize their Arab interlocutors are only telling them what they want to here. Thomas is no American (and, frankly, doesn’t look American). Hence, all the pro-American symbolism in these photos and those yet unpublished but of which I had a preview is important.
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Arrow said:
Was surprised to see these photographs taken by a German while in Libya. They show a pro-American look to them.

"Photos from Freedom"
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/06/05/photos-from-freedom/
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Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan were once pro-American, too.

However, it's stretching reality to claimthat these photos have a pro-American look to them. There are twelve photos - two have American flags in them.

As the "Americans" are currently the "rebel"'s air force it would be surprising if they weren't pro-American at this stage of the regime change invasion!

How's the "No-Fly zone" thing going, by the way?!
 
JihadJane said:
Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan were once pro-American, too.
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total lie and utter revision of history.

the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan were NEVER "pro-American". They simply accepted Western-assisstance to fight the Soviets. They had no love for the USA, Capitalism, democracy, liberalism, etc etc.
 
Thunder said:
on this issue, I have to agree.

Obama should go to Congress and explain what our mission there is, regardless of the size and scope of our involvement.
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"Obama should have gone to Congress and explain what our mission there is, regardless of the size and scope of our involvement." seems much more appropriate.

McHrozni
 
geni said:
Interesting video of the aftermath of the fighting towards the centre of Misurata



Those Misuratans are tough.
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Those were three dead T-72s in that big souk building. I wonder what the rebels are using for anti-tank weapons because those aren't anything to joke around with.
 
Polaris said:
Those were three dead T-72s in that big souk building. I wonder what the rebels are using for anti-tank weapons because those aren't anything to joke around with.
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It's reported that they have at least some Milan anti-tank missiles. Otherwise an RPG-7 from the right angle or it's possible the tanks ran out of amunition and were destroyed by their own crew.
 
geni said:
It's reported that they have at least some Milan anti-tank missiles. Otherwise an RPG-7 from the right angle or it's possible the tanks ran out of amunition and were destroyed by their own crew.
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I'd rule out RPG-7s on those. One lucky hit maybe, but not three. A Milan ATGM would have no trouble popping a T-72 but as close together and in such tight formation, scuttling seems just as likely.
 
Polaris said:
I'd rule out RPG-7s on those. One lucky hit maybe, but not three. A Milan ATGM would have no trouble popping a T-72 but as close together and in such tight formation, scuttling seems just as likely.
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Don't rule it out completely as a factor. A hit by RPG-7 in the tracks will prevent the tank from moving. If the vechile was under constant attack, even if only by small arms, there is little the crew could do other than destroy the tank and save themselves. A T-72 only carries 39 shells (plus machine gun ammo), so this will happen quite quickly. Much of the fighting was in urban enviroment, where it would be quite possible to sneak up on tank and hit it below the belt.

McHrozni
 
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'Up to 15,000 killed in Libya war: U.N. rights expert'

"GENEVA (Reuters) – An estimated 10,000 to 15,000 people have been killed on both sides in four months of fighting in Libya, according to Cherif Bassiouni, who led a U.N. Human Rights Council mission to Tripoli and rebel-held areas in late April.

His panel found evidence of war crimes by Gaddafi forces, including attacks on civilians, aid workers, and medical units. Aircraft, tanks, artillery, Grad rockets, snipers were used. It also found some evidence of crimes by opposition forces.

Libya has denied the charges and accused rebels of butchery and cannibalism."
 
Arrow said:
Was surprised to see these photographs taken by a German while in Libya. They show a pro-American look to them.
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Thomas von der Osten-Sacken is an associate of an obscure political group which claims to be on the far left, yet is obsessively pro-American and pro-Israel. The self-titled "Antideutschen" (Anti-Germans) are only taken seriously by themselves. So this comes as no surprise.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Thomas von der Osten-Sacken is an associate of an obscure political group which claims to be on the far left, yet is obsessively pro-American and pro-Israel. The self-titled "Antideutschen" (Anti-Germans) are only taken seriously by themselves. So this comes as no surprise.
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Do you consider the "left" to be inherently anti-Israel and anti-United States?
 
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