Herman Cain for President?

[A'isha]

Nope. We'll focus on the interpretation of as Saul Alinsky aim of pinning the opponent and putting him on the defensive.

Why is it that people like mhaze know all about Alinsky and his books, while people like me had never even heard of him until some right-wingers started ranting about how everyone on the left apparently follows Alinsky's recommendations with a religious fervor?

 

[I Am The Scum]

Why is it that people like mhaze know all about Alinsky and his books, while people like me had never even heard of him until some right-wingers started ranting about how everyone on the left apparently follows Alinsky's recommendations with a religious fervor?

Cause you're a brainwashed libtard, of course. How else could you not be desiring to fellate Herman Cain right now? You've forgotten your indoctrination. It's all part of the Communist Socialist Marxist Nazi plan to take over America.

(I've taken a liking to the strategy of responding to right-wing hyperbole by cranking the knob up to 11, even though it's literally the same thing that the Nazis did)

 

[TraneWreck]

Why is it that people like mhaze know all about Alinsky and his books, while people like me had never even heard of him until some right-wingers started ranting about how everyone on the left apparently follows Alinsky's recommendations with a religious fervor?

Well, when all this Alinsky stuff started (I think Beck got a bug in his crawl, maybe-I'm not really sure how it started), I went and read about the fellow because like you, I had no idea what they were talking about.

I assumed he was going to be a 60's era radical, maybe a communist along the lines of Chuevara. A guy that raged about blowing up the sytem, or something.

Instead, I find this:

Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 – June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing and has been compared in Playboy magazine to Thomas Paine as being "one of the great American leaders of the nonsocialist left."

[...]

His ideas were later adapted by some U.S. college students and other young organizers in the late 1960s and formed part of their strategies for organizing on campus and beyond.[2] Time magazine once wrote that "American democracy is being altered by Alinsky's ideas," and conservative author William F. Buckley said he was "very close to being an organizational genius."[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

He had the audacity to try and organize citizens in a non-violent, democratic manner. THE HORROR.

And read the words of this flaming radical:

Not at any time. I've never joined any organization—not even the ones I've organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide.

Is it clear now? This guy is pure evil.

 

[Lurker]

I'm quite certain that the progressives will find a way to gen up a hate-and-smear campaign for this guy.

I'm quite certain that JREF progs will happily join in.

The nature of that pack of lies, though, is uncertain at this time.

Is he...a religious wacko?

Is he....NOT REALLY BLACK?

What is the insidious evil that lurks within him?

How soon may we know, High Priest of the Progs?

How about I don't agree with his policy positions? Is that acceptable?

 

[leftysergeant]

It is pretty clear to me from watching the video that the pompous ass said exactly the stupid crap that his attackers said he said.

Then, again, there was enough stupid in that speech that it would have probably done me serious brain damage to have listened to more than I needed to sit through to hear his foot meeting his soft palate.

His suggestion that Obama was "throwing Israel under the bus" and that we need to tell the world that if they mess with Israel, they are messing with us" is just plain wrong. Did that ignorant twit miss the remarks that Washington made about "entangling foreign treaties?" Whadda marooooon!

Make the tax cuts permanent? Dude! They were suposed to have encouraged the fat class to create some jobs. (Make that jobs HERE.) Where the hell are the jobs, Cain? Moron wants us to drink ourselves sober.

Oh, and doesn't he sound so grand and benevolent talking about turning us from an entitlement society to an empowerment society. Empowering busines is good for all of us because it increases job growth.

In a pig's eye.

Business was empowered under the last thirty years of Republicon misrule. Businesses became empowered to move their factories off shore and then take a tax break for doing it.

Cain has no brain.

And he struts like a mack daddy. Total schmuck.

 

[Unabogie]

I think Saul Alinsky first came up in Jerome Corsi's book "Obamanation".

Yep. Jerome Corsi.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Obama_Nation.htm

Saul Alinsky gets mentioned frequently as Obama's philosophical mentor (the same Saul Alinsky who is claimed as Hillary Clinton's philosophical mentor). On page 159, for example, Corsi writes that Obama "was instructed in the Machiavellian power politics of Saul Alinsky's radical activism." The problem here is that Alinsky is a well-respected community organizer -- I myself have been similarly "instructed," and have followed, many of Alinsky's methods, because they are well-established as successful community organizing methods. Alinsky's methods work to politically empower disempowered groups, including black communities, so of course Obama was familiar with Alinsky. Corsi's characterization of Alinsky as "Machiavellian" is equivalent to saying that community organizing is inherently radical.

 

[mhaze]

As a marxist, Alinsky didn't join the Communist party.

He was best buddies with Al Capone too, but didn't join the mobsters.

The statement that a propaganda technique in this thread is Alinsky #5 or #11 does not reflect on anything other than the technique being so identified.

 

[mhaze]

How about I don't agree with his policy positions? Is that acceptable?

NO! The matter has to be discussed at the level of hate and smear and how to best utilize tactics of demagoguery.

You are clearly NOT WITH THE PROGRAM!

 

[TraneWreck]

...proceed. Take a shred of truth, that is the best thing to build a big lie around. Then repeat it over and over. That's the tried and proven method.

As a marxist, Alinsky didn't join the Communist party.

He was best buddies with Al Capone too, but didn't join the mobsters.

The statement that a propaganda technique in this thread is Alinsky #5 or #11 does not reflect on anything other than the technique being so identified.

Projection.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Have you found the people saying that Herman Cain isn't qualified because he's not really black yet?

 

[mhaze]

Have you found the people saying that Herman Cain isn't qualified because he's not really black yet?

No but we've got some right here that think he's not qualified because he had neither a white hippie mom or a black communist dad, let alone both.

He's obviously disqualified to be a POTUS PROG.

Prog I use as short for Progressive.

I like it.

Rhymes with Frog.

 

[TraneWreck]

He's obviously disqualified to be a POTUS PROG.

Right, because he isn't progressive.

Those shallow progs, defining someone by the views they hold and the positions they advocate.

 

[leftysergeant]

NO! The matter has to be discussed at the level of hate and smear and how to best utilize tactics of demagoguery.

Nope. We are doing quite well discussing it rationally, and deriding him for being less brilliant than he takes himself to be, and for being such a self-serving little greed head.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

No but we've got some right here that think he's not qualified because he had neither a white hippie mom or a black communist dad, let alone both.

He's obviously disqualified to be a POTUS PROG.

Prog I use as short for Progressive.

I like it.

Rhymes with Frog.

Please find me someone who said that and stop trolling while you're at it.

 

[johnny karate]

No but we've got some right here that think he's not qualified because he had neither a white hippie mom or a black communist dad, let alone both.

He's obviously disqualified to be a POTUS PROG.

Prog I use as short for Progressive.

I like it.

Rhymes with Frog.

Can someone translate this post for me? My Bizarre Partisan Babbling-to-English decoder ring was obliterated when I tried to myself.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Can someone translate this post for me? My Bizarre Partisan Babbling-to-English decoder ring was obliterated when I tried to myself.

It's just low effort trolling combined with a lack of knowledge of the fact that "prog" has been a widely-used shortening of "progressive" since, well, prog rock has existed.

 

[Ladewig]

Suit yourself.

The country has serious problems and people are willing to listen to people that may have answers. No one would expect you to say anything other than derogatory comments about this guy, who is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from you.

All I was indicating is that if a speech was points 1-15 and a bunch of opponents of that guy focus on 7.1(a) item, they will be out of touch with most regular people, who looked at....well....

1-15

But, proceed. Take a shred of truth, that is the best thing to build a big lie around. Then repeat it over and over. That's the tried and proven method.

I'll step over to your side and say that accurately quoting a phrase or two from the Declaration of Independence and mistakenly attributing them to the Constitution isn't really that important in deciding who to vote for in a presidential race. It's not worth more than a chuckle or two.

But please stop pretending that the right-wing is so high and mighty that they would never engage in personal attacks against slight mis-statements or personal attacks based on previous associations or just personal attacks based on gross hyperbole. Ann Coulter wrote a book titled "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism." The number of folks in the right-wing media who have accused the president of literally trying to destroy America is shameful.

We can discuss bias in the media if you like, but nothing is gained by you saying "I'm shocked - shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

......

ETA

Please find me someone who said that and stop trolling while you're at it.

Is it trolling? I never can tell.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Is it trolling? I never can tell.

My metric is generally that if the entirety or majority of the quote/argument is designed not to further a point or present claims/evidence but to anger a specific group, then it's most likely trolling. I have seen nothing out of mhaze's arguments in this thread that support any actual willingness to engage in anything but punditry or riling up leftysergeant. There's also the telltale signs that you see so often in JREF trolls--bouncing rapidly from one topic to another so that it's too late to expect a response on one topic since the thread has moved on to another, making up of words/labels to anger the target, claiming victimhood, etc.

 

[mhaze]

I'll step over to your side and say that accurately quoting a phrase or two from the Declaration of Independence and mistakenly attributing them to the Constitution isn't really that important in deciding who to vote for in a presidential race. It's not worth more than a chuckle or two.

But please stop pretending that the right-wing is so high and mighty....

The subject is not a comparision to the right wing, nor a comparison to left wing Gaffes of the 57 States Variety. Neither is the subject the 15 meritorious topics of the Cain speech.

The subject is strictly construed by the OP to be the gaffe or possible gaffe, of Cain in the speech. Yet to simply point out that to stay on OP we must ignore meaningful content of said speech, is to be considered trolling. But I seek to stay on topic, and encourage the building of the lie for good Prog purposes, out of the slight or alleged gaffe.

And suggest useful methods, but know that exposing such methods is destructive.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Is it trolling? I never can tell.

As far as I can see, you got two options. Which most accurately describes Mhaze's thought process?

1. Making up criticisms of a candidate, attacking the people who didn't make those criticisms for making those criticisms (when it was actually you all along), chastising these same people for not sticking to the issues, even though they have made substantive points, and you have not, and refusing to respond on said points.

2. Trolling.