Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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What difference does it make what I think?


You have stated an opinion and I'm trying to determine if you have rationally thought about that opinion or if you are just BSing to support your group. You seem decidedly unwilling to discuss the basis of your opinion so I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
 
You have stated an opinion and I'm trying to determine if you have rationally thought about that opinion or if you are just BSing to support your group. You seem decidedly unwilling to discuss the basis of your opinion so I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

Good for you. No comment on the improbability of the large, ironclad conspiracy then?
 
On the defamation charge against Amanda, it looks like about a dozen cops closed ranks and are either staying quiet or outright lying about the treatment that Amanda received durring her interrogation. The facts that they claim no tapes exist for this interrogation when they went out of their way to record everything else, that the cops claim that they weren't following what is standard interrogation techniques designed to keep the witness off balance, that Amanda recorded her version of the interrogation shortly afterwards and that there was no investigation into Amanda's claims of how she was treated; all reinforce my belief that Amanda's version of that night is the real version.

As to the main charge, I don't see that there is any need for conspiracy when demonstrated gross incompetence is satisfactory to explain the results.
 
Speaking of people who are cunning and shrewd (NOT), it appears Mignini has earned a great deal more credit from all of us than he deserves. Credit, that is, in terms of what we have believed he is capable of.

We have made the effort to learn about the case only to discover now that we know more about it than Mignini. He doesn't know the facts about the knife, the mixed DNA, the bra clasp, the timing of the phone calls -- he can hardly even recall the name of his star witness.
I have an image of bloated Henry VIII on his throne, snapping his figures and pointing, while flunkies bow and scrape before him, fulfilling his every unreasonable wish and command.

Mignini appears to have no talent for scheming and conniving after all. The judges of Perugia should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

______________________________

Mary,

And does he know the facts about the window?

Mignini: " ...the break-in. And it appeared immediately---the climbing, with a stone thrown through the window, through two shutters that were there, that left open quite a narrow space, rather limited room between them---immediately that appeared to us to be a simulation." (CNN Interview, English Translation, page 1)



rh87.JPG

The window, as seen by Mignini, the afternoon of November 2, 2007

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On the defamation charge against Amanda, it looks like about a dozen cops closed ranks and are either staying quiet or outright lying about the treatment that Amanda received durring her interrogation. The facts that they claim no tapes exist for this interrogation when they went out of their way to record everything else, that the cops claim that they weren't following what is standard interrogation techniques designed to keep the witness off balance, that Amanda recorded her version of the interrogation shortly afterwards and that there was no investigation into Amanda's claims of how she was treated; all reinforce my belief that Amanda's version of that night is the real version.

As to the main charge, I don't see that there is any need for conspiracy when demonstrated gross incompetence is satisfactory to explain the results.

And yet not one broke ranks? Imagine what the UK tabloids would pay?

Sorry, like most CTs, it's just wishful thinking.
 
Mignini: " ...the break-in. And it appeared immediately---the climbing, with a stone thrown through the window, through two shutters that were there, that left open quite a narrow space, rather limited room between them---immediately that appeared to us to be a simulation. (CNN Interview, English Translation, page 1)///


That is such a silly argument. Why would someone throw a rock through a window that is already open?!

Conversely, what evidence is there that dictates the shutters were in that exact position before the break-in? What precludes Rudy from opening the shutters wide enough to throw the rock through then pulling them closed enough to hide the damage after climbing in.
 
And yet not one broke ranks? Imagine what the UK tabloids would pay?

Sorry, like most CTs, it's just wishful thinking.

What would they pay and how does that compare to the salary that they earn year after year? One officer has already lost their job for talking to the press over this case.

Of the 12 officers initially participating in the charge, 5 already dropped out.
 
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And yet not one broke ranks? Imagine what the UK tabloids would pay?

Sorry, like most CTs, it's just wishful thinking.



Well actually of the 12 plus, only 5 had the nerve to try a slander case. That would be 7 or more "breaking ranks". Besides the slander case is minor and simply a tactic by police to silence a witness. When the court adds up all the different slander charges related to this case that sum alone will be proof enough to show malicious prosecution. Or are we to assume that every police and prosecutor has honestly been slandered? That seems like a real CT.

As for the new witnesses, I’m certain the defense has no real wish to hear from these jail house snitches...but by hearing them the judge will be compelled to call Rudy Guede and while he is already assessed his 16 years, he can get added time for oh say not being totally honest in court. And in this appearance he can not remain silent. He must answer. I think these snitches are a tactical move to get RG on the stand so he can get the shredding he has so far been allowed to avoid.
 
It was Alt-F4 not being "worth being suspended or banned over" which was your most revealing comment.....

And if SN had been arguing with LondonJohn I'd have said that he wasn't worth getting banned over. Do you think that any poster here is worth getting yourself banned over? I don't, it just so happens that in this case the object of SN's ire was Alt-F4 rather then someone else whom I would have used the exact same words. How revealing is that for you?
 
And yet not one broke ranks? Imagine what the UK tabloids would pay?

I'm imagining... a few thousand pounds. Maybe ten, tops. This would not be a curculation winning story - "Italian policeman nobody in England has ever heard of admits that suspect was cuffed on the back of the head a couple of times." Most people would just yawn and turn to the sports pages.

Probably not worth losing my job over, were I an Italian policeman.
 
The post you seem so helpless with was very obviously fully documented as a FACT by including a hyperlinked URL that the factual statement I quoted came from.

You seem to be missing the point, pilot. (No surprise there!).

Can you demonstrate that the interpretation of "maximum cooperation" you believe in is to be preferred to the one Barbie Latza Nadeau has written about?
 
So how many were involved in the framing then?

Who says they were framed? Why attribute mallicousness to what can be explain by incompetence?

And yet not one broke ranks? Imagine what the UK tabloids would pay?

How many of the bent Queensland cops rushed off the the media and told their stories in the 70's and 80's before the enquiries begun?
 
______________________________

Mary,

And does he know the facts about the window?

Mignini: " ...the break-in. And it appeared immediately---the climbing, with a stone thrown through the window, through two shutters that were there, that left open quite a narrow space, rather limited room between them---immediately that appeared to us to be a simulation." (CNN Interview, English Translation, page 1)



[qimg]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/rh87.JPG[/qimg]
The window, as seen by Mignini, the afternoon of November 2, 2007

///


Pfft, I dunno: you go to sleep in your time zone, and when you wake up it's all kicked off!

Anyhow..... on the issue of the exterior shutters: as I've previously noted here, there's evidence that the shutters were both pulled inwards together when they were first seen by the postal police, and they were then clearly moved to a more open position before the crime scene photos were taken. Whether Mignini saw the shutters in their original position, or whether he was informed of that fact, he's obviously basing his "argument" here on his knowledge that the shutters were closed in when they were first found.

However, as both I and others have pointed out, this is a ludicrous and illogical position for Mignini to be taking. It's perfectly feasible - and actually more likely than not - that a genuine burglar would have closed not only the window once he had entered the room, but also the exterior shutters. It's obvious (I hope) why this would be to the burglar's advantage: closing in the exterior shutters would mask the broken window from view from anyone outside the cottage, thereby minimising the chance of the alarm being raised. Mignini might as well have "argued" that since the windows were closed in together when they were found, and since a genuine burglar wouldn't have been able to get through the broken glass gap in the window, this was also "evidence" of a staging.

Here, for Mignini's benefit, is a totally logical progession for a genuine break-in which leaves the window in the condition in which it was found. For brevity, I will assume that the burglar was named Guede:

1) Guede reaches up from grate on lower window and opens exterior shutters
2) Guede throws rock (either from below, or from raised driveway) through window
3) Guede climbs wall and perches on exterior window sill
4) Guede enlarges hole made by rock to a dimension where he can reach his hand through and unlatch window
5) Guede opens windows and enters Filomena's room
6) Guede turns back to window and closes in exterior shutters
7) Guede closes window


Incidentally (and tangentially) Fine, at what point did you start to have doubts about Knox's and Sollecito's legal guilt? I remember that you were once quite a firm believer in their guilt, but you appear to have changed your view over the past month or two.
 
What would they pay and how does that compare to the salary that they earn year after year? One officer has already lost their job for talking to the press over this case.

Of the 12 officers initially participating in the charge, 5 already dropped out.

Yes, that a bunch of cops are covering for each other's incompetence and abuse of power are completely impossible, a nutjob's conspiracy theory, whereas the alternative "theory" makes total sense to lionking. Two happy students, lovers for a week, already bored with their sex life choose to incorporate a shady drifter stranger into their weed and mangha comics fueled murderous orgy - usual, everyday stuff. A girl happen to have a kitchen knife handy, that she casually carries in her bag - nothing uncommon for lionking. They manage to remove every trace of themselves but leave Guede's DNA, footprints and fingerprints intact, creating a scene that perfectly fits into a single rapist murderer scenario. They also happen to stage a burglary in such a way that it perfectly fits Guede's modus operandi. Such tasty pieces of nonsense lionking swallows happily.

Maybe I'm pessimistic but I don't believe any reasonable arguments would come through and make him stop and think for a while. Money paid by tabloids would make cops admit to criminal behavior? That one nicely shows how far removed from reality lionking is.
 
I see that a few of the pro-guilt commentators appear to be confused about the current situation regarding the independent DNA testing review. They seem to particularly confused about the reports that the review scientists said yesterday that they are now "satisfied" with the source DNA data that Stefanoni finally provided to them (after nearly two months of waiting). This does not mean that the review scientists are satisfied with the information itself: indeed they said in court yesterday that they only receive it last week and have not had any time to look at it properly yet. It means that they are satisfied that they have finally received the information they were requesting.

So it's interesting and instructive how this situation metamorphosises in some people's heads to a belief that the review scientists are satisfied that Stefanoni's test methods were fine, and that all they have left to check is the possibility of impropriety before the evidence items reached her lab. I fear it's just more indication of poor reasoning coupled with tunnel vision and a need not to be shown to be wrong.
 
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