Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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HumanityBlues said:
Speaking of unsourced material... Truejustice has an article up about how this whole Frank debacle is just an enormous conspiracy/trick to fool the Committee to Protect Journalists to go after Mignini.

Is TrueJustice like some sort of backwards parody of the Onion? Or is this Peter Quennell guy really this stupid and crazy?
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Well the truth will come out when someone does some real reporting.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Speaking of unsourced material... Truejustice has an article up about how this whole Frank debacle is just an enormous conspiracy/trick to fool the Committee to Protect Journalists to go after Mignini.

Is TrueJustice like some sort of backwards parody of the Onion? Or is this Peter Quennell guy really this stupid and crazy?
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Anyone wanna agree with this guy's assessment? Anyone? No takers that this whole incident was just made up in order to trick the CPJ?
 
HumanityBlues said:
You know what? Showing documentation would please about 10 people who post on message boards. No one else is denying this is doubting it.

Edit: Italian news is reporting on it now.
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Definitely not for message board posters - what do they matter? Funny though, Frank communicated to his public through a message board/blog.

Nothing wrong in people wanting verification, accuracy or truth in reporting, whether that be from or about court officials, politicians or journalists.

Yay! Finally Italy is moving one step away from being a third world country.
 
FOAs vast tentacles slowly encircle the hapless Mignini

HumanityBlues said:
Anyone wanna agree with this guy's assessment? Anyone? No takers that this whole incident was just made up in order to trick the CPJ?
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HumanityBlues,

At the TJfMK site Peter QuennellTM wrote, "There is some evidence of his [Chris Mellas?] developing the whole FOA network for the Marriott PR operation." This is so Area 51ish that it really belongs on the CT thread that Kaosium started.
 
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el buscador said:
It is somewhat interesting that in the Italian reports that Paola Belsino is also said to be the judge but christainahannah can't find a judge in Florence by that name. She did find a Paola Belsito who is a judge. I can understand a typo in the American press, not good but translation problems do occur. But in the Italian press about an Italian judge?

But, of course, we don't know for sure the real name of the judge.
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Just because I haven't located the name doesn't mean there isn't a judge by that name. There are many judges and it wouldn't be unusual for a particular name not to appear at first search.

If the name is a result of a typo and it has been carried over into the Italian media it may be due to acquiring copy from the States and incorporating that into the news article.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Nor do I care. The only reason I would want the order would be to convince some conspiracy theorist named alt f4 on JREF. No one else cares or is denying it but a few loonies on some message boards. I don't care that Orly Taitz doesn't accept Obama's citizenship and I don't care that you don't accept whatever you don't want to accept. It's always going to be some new excuse anyways.
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You care enough to keep responding to my posts though.
 
christianahannah said:
Just because I haven't located the name doesn't mean there isn't a judge by that name. There are many judges and it wouldn't be unusual for a particular name not to appear at first search.

If the name is a result of a typo and it has been carried over into the Italian media it may be due to acquiring copy from the States and incorporating that into the news article.
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Hi christianahannah. Yeah, I get that, I get the whole thing. It's either the name is correct and then no big deal, or the name is wrong and the American reporters made a mistake and the Italian reports are just copy and paste without fact checking, etc.

Either way I don't think anyone cares except perhaps Alt.
 
el buscador said:
Hi christianahannah. Yeah, I get that, I get the whole thing. It's either the name is correct and then no big deal, or the name is wrong and the American reporters made a mistake and the Italian reports are just copy and paste without fact checking, etc.

Either way I don't think anyone cares except perhaps Alt.
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I think it is a typo at some point in the chain. There doesn't appear to be anyone with the surname Belsino in the Florence judicial system, however (as Chritiana discovered) there is a Judge Paola Belsito. It's just too close, in my view, to be coincidental, and my conclusion would therefore be that the judge's actual name is Belsito.

ETA One of the crazier crazies is now implying that the CPJ might have intentionally misspelled the Florentine judge's surname, in order to thwart fact-checking! You couldn't make it up :)

(By the way, that really tough fact-checking process would reveal the one-letter error in about 0.23 seconds to a semi-competent researcher. Just google ""paola belsino" firenze" (Firenze is the Italian term for Florence, for our less-competent researchers), and google itself comes back with the suggestion: "Did you mean "paola belsito" firenze?" Those devious CPJ lap-dogs, eh?! ;) )
 
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There seems to be an awful lot of confusion over at True Justice.

Kermit had this to say: "Now a new Perugia Shock is up and running in a test phase with a simple change in the host and different free software.

NO WAY that site would be going live if a judge in Florence had said to shut it down. Or if Frank’s legal troubles were because of it. Or if Mignini really were gunning for him.

It looks like all the Google Blogger hullaballoo yesterday was to simply set CPJ up for another anti-Mignini attack, and to add to Frank’s martyrdom and jump his usually very small audience."

Let me explain this again. Injustice in Perugia has been backing up Frank's site for some time now because we have long feared that Frank would become a target of Mignini. We are now posting Frank's blog online so his reporting can continue to be read. We will not allow Perugia Shock to be silenced. If they take down the new blog, we will post it again, and again, and again. I think you get the point. Is this too confusing to understand?

The true intentions of the anti-Knox groups are becoming crystal clear for anyone that had any doubt up to this point. The latest attacks on CPJ are disgusting.
 
christianahannah said:
Definitely not for message board posters - what do they matter? Funny though, Frank communicated to his public through a message board/blog.

Nothing wrong in people wanting verification, accuracy or truth in reporting, whether that be from or about court officials, politicians or journalists.

Yay! Finally Italy is moving one step away from being a third world country.
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Nothing wrong with wanting verification of things, but at some point it reaches the level of ridiculousness. If you want to see documents for mere curiosity's sake, that is fair. But from this vantage it really does seem that it's a giant conspiracy until you have the real documents. If that's the case, nothing is ever going to be enough anyways.

Secondly, Frank communicating through a blog is different than the conspiracy nuts posting their ramblings on here, especially given the amount of actual reporting he did.

"Yay! Finally Italy is moving one step away from being a third world country." This throw in made no sense.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
There seems to be an awful lot of confusion over at True Justice.

Kermit had this to say: "Now a new Perugia Shock is up and running in a test phase with a simple change in the host and different free software.

NO WAY that site would be going live if a judge in Florence had said to shut it down. Or if Frank’s legal troubles were because of it. Or if Mignini really were gunning for him.

It looks like all the Google Blogger hullaballoo yesterday was to simply set CPJ up for another anti-Mignini attack, and to add to Frank’s martyrdom and jump his usually very small audience."

Let me explain this again. Injustice in Perugia has been backing up Frank's site for some time now because we have long feared that Frank would become a target of Mignini. We are now posting Frank's blog online so his reporting can continue to be read. We will not allow Perugia Shock to be silenced. If they take down the new blog, we will post it again, and again, and again. I think you get the point. Is this too confusing to understand?

The true intentions of the anti-Knox groups are becoming crystal clear for anyone that had any doubt up to this point. The latest attacks on CPJ are disgusting.
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They collectively don't understand the process of enforcing court orders. You (either personally* or to IIP) are likely to get a new court order from the magnificent Mignini ordering you to remove Perugia Shock from the web. The previous one seems to have been aimed at Google (and possibly Sfarzo also got one), but he'd have to go back to court to get one against you. And I'm sure he'll have fun enforcing any new court order against you :D

* although of course you are not actually a real person, but instead you're a fictional name which is an amalgam cover name for a number of FOA acolytes ;)
 
HumanityBlues said:
Nothing wrong with wanting verification of things, but at some point it reaches the level of ridiculousness. If you want to see documents for mere curiosity's sake, that is fair. But from this vantage it really does seem that it's a giant conspiracy until you have the real documents. If that's the case, nothing is ever going to be enough anyways.

Secondly, Frank communicating through a blog is different than the conspiracy nuts posting their ramblings on here, especially given the amount of actual reporting he did.

"Yay! Finally Italy is moving one step away from being a third world country." This throw in made no sense.
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The way I see it, there's a world of difference between

a) Sfarzo giving statements to the CPJ and some recognised media outlets, explaining explicitly how and why Perugia Shock was taken down, and

b) someone making a nebulous claim - based on nothing more than their own prejudices and without an ounce of evidence to underpin it - that Sfarzo, the CPJ and media outlets are lying or misled, and that this is an elaborate deception planned and executed by Sfarzo in league with the "FOA".


I can see so many parallels here with the whole Obama birth certificate shenanigans. Once Obama's spokesman had come out and said, unequivocally, that Obama was definitely born in Hawaii, that should have been the end of the matter. To take things further was essentially to accuse the President's spokesman (and, by extension, the President himself) of lying.

Although even in that case, there was an element of public accountability at stake, since Obama is a democratically-elected politician who is required to qualify for the post by fulfilling a number of "entry criteria". There's no public accountability issue however surrounding Sfarzo's case, which makes the demands for "evidence" even more risible.

What's equally risible is that the pro-guilt commentators who are calling this whole thing a conspiracy - one involving various media agencies and a respected journalistic organisation - are guilty of exactly the sort of crazy, wooly, near-paranoid thinking that they themselves are so fond of ridiculing and attributing to others. But I'm guessing that they can't even see the irony...
 
HumanityBlues said:
Nothing wrong with wanting verification of things, but at some point it reaches the level of ridiculousness. If you want to see documents for mere curiosity's sake, that is fair. But from this vantage it really does seem that it's a giant conspiracy until you have the real documents. If that's the case, nothing is ever going to be enough anyways.

Secondly, Frank communicating through a blog is different than the conspiracy nuts posting their ramblings on here, especially given the amount of actual reporting he did.

"Yay! Finally Italy is moving one step away from being a third world country." This throw in made no sense.
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No giant conspiracy at all. But when something is claimed it is good to have backing for that claim. Think of "weapons of mass destruction" and such.

Frank did do a good amount of reporting and much of it was used elsewhere but the reporting was done from a blog, not a traditional news source. And talk about conspiracy nuts did you read some of the comments on his blog? Okay, yes, I did post there occasionally but I am not a conspiracy nut, really I'm not.

Sorry for the last sentence. It was in response to your edit that Italian media was reporting on the shuttering of Frank's blog. I think it funny that Italian media is being allowed to report on the subject especially since some feel it is unsafe for the media to go up against the local government there.
 
christianahannah said:
No giant conspiracy at all. But when something is claimed it is good to have backing for that claim. Think of "weapons of mass destruction" and such.

Frank did do a good amount of reporting and much of it was used elsewhere but the reporting was done from a blog, not a traditional news source. And talk about conspiracy nuts did you read some of the comments on his blog? Okay, yes, I did post there occasionally but I am not a conspiracy nut, really I'm not.

Sorry for the last sentence. It was in response to your edit that Italian media was reporting on the shuttering of Frank's blog. I think it funny that Italian media is being allowed to report on the subject especially since some feel it is unsafe for the media to go up against the local government there.
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But again, there's a big difference between something like the infamous "45 minutes" claim and this situation. The "45 minutes" claim was clearly always an intelligence opinion, and it was disclosed by a government that was desperately keen to garner public support for an invasion of Iraq. And it was never a black-and-white issue.

By contrast, there are reports in both media outlets and the CPJ that Sfarzo was told by email that Google had closed down Perugia Shock in response to a court order obtained by Mignini in Florence, alleging defamation. Now, if this is materially untrue, then either Sfarzo lied to the media and to CPJ (and they didn't bother checking the story), or both the media and the CPJ decided to invent the information.

Plus, as I've said before, what's the motivation for Sfarzo and/or media/CPJ to tell such a black-and-white lie? Why would they go into such detail, rather than just demurring to an anodyne statement along the lines of "The site had to be taken down, but no more details are available owing to legal restraints"? After all, if it does turn out (it won't) that this was all some fiendish subterfuge, and that Sfarzo engineered it all in cahoots with dark orces in the media and CPJ, then all the parties involved will lose large amounts of credibility when the lies are exposed.
 
christianahannah said:
Sorry for the last sentence. It was in response to your edit that Italian media was reporting on the shuttering of Frank's blog. I think it funny that Italian media is being allowed to report on the subject especially since some feel it is unsafe for the media to go up against the local government there.
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Perhaps that's why they reported that the US media had reported it and repeated it almost word for word, including typo. Of course, repeating something Amanda said didn't work out for her parents, so maybe there is still some risk there.
 
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