Bachmann cranks the hyperbole knob to 11

mhaze said:
JoeTheJuggler said:
You say that Huckabee was making a comparison to the Greatest Generation. All right, what was he comparing to them?...
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure why you have trouble (1) actually listing the quote (2) actually reading it (3) actually understanding it. I notice you avoid actually quoting the item so I'll help out a bit.
Click to expand...

And there follows a failure to address my question about your claim.

I've already linked to a YouTube of the entire video, so why the need to quote "the item" or list the quote? (Whatever that might mean.)

I've watched the video of Huckabee's speech several times, and it's obvious that he is indeed comparing current events in the U.S. to the Holocaust. He claimed that if he and his like-minded wingnuts don't act to prevent it, a future daughter will be asking, "Why didn't somebody do something?"

You claim he isn't making that comparison, but rather an "allusion of similitude"--which for some reason in your twisted way of thinking means that it's a comparison to the Greatest Generation. So again, what is the Greatest Generation being compared to? Aren't they being compared to right-wingers trying to push their ideological take on the current economic problems our country faces?

Do you know anything about the "Greatest Generation"? They mostly elected Democratic presidents, and in time of crisis rallied behind their government and also ran huge budget deficits in the war effort leading to all-time historically high federal debt (as measured as a percentage of GDP).
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
And there follows a failure to address my question about your claim.

I've already linked to a YouTube of the entire video, so why the need to quote "the item" or list the quote? (Whatever that might mean.).....
Click to expand...
No, you did not. You linked to a 30 second excerpt. I provided a link to the entire approximate 28 minute speech, and a written transcript of the section in question in this discussion.

JoeTheJuggler said:
...I've watched the video of Huckabee's speech several times, and it's obvious that he is indeed comparing current events in the U.S. to the Holocaust......
Click to expand...
Which is why I provided the written transcript. That means you can't make a "claim based on having watched it several times and it is obvious...". Instead, you have to actually point to the grammar and the words, eg "show your work to back your claim".

One alternative would be just to admit that this is just practicing political smear tactics, for which you don't have to show your work or whether what you say is true. I would agree with that.;)


JoeTheJuggler said:
...

I've watched the video of Huckabee's speech several times, and it's obvious that he is indeed comparing current events in the U.S. to the Holocaust. He claimed that if he and his like-minded wingnuts don't act to prevent it, a future daughter will be asking, "Why didn't somebody do something?"

You claim he isn't making that comparison, but rather an "allusion of similitude"--which for some reason in your twisted way of thinking means that it's a comparison to the Greatest Generation. So again, what is the Greatest Generation being compared to? Aren't they being compared to right-wingers trying to push their ideological take on the current economic problems our country faces?
Click to expand...

Well, that isn't what I said. I said that the comparison was directly to the greatest generation, and that there was no direct or indirect similitude to the Holocaust, that at best, you could allege an allusion of such.

As for the bolded part, I bolded it for a reason, which is the fact that Huckabee asks for action, not inaction. And the Greatest Generation is noted for exactly that: Action, not inaction.

If you want to construe that as ideological and wacko, go ahead, be my guest.
 
mhaze said:
JoeTheJuggler said:
You claim he isn't making that comparison, but rather an "allusion of similitude"--which for some reason in your twisted way of thinking means that it's a comparison to the Greatest Generation. So again, what is the Greatest Generation being compared to? Aren't they being compared to right-wingers trying to push their ideological take on the current economic problems our country faces?
Click to expand...

Well, that isn't what I said.
Click to expand...
I realize that. It's what I'm asking you.

I said that the comparison was directly to the greatest generation, and that there was no direct or indirect similitude to the Holocaust, that at best, you could allege an allusion of such.
Click to expand...
That doesn't even make sense. It's not a comparison but it's an allusion of a comparison?

As for the bolded part, I bolded it for a reason, which is the fact that Huckabee asks for action, not inaction. And the Greatest Generation is noted for exactly that: Action, not inaction.
Click to expand...
Just any action? So would it be as logical to compare the Greatest Generation to active terrorist cells?

At any rate, Huckabee not only asks for action, but claims that if they don't act to prevent it, something big and horrible regarding debt and erosion of freedoms will happen such that a future kid will ask, "Why didn't somebody do something?" just as Huckabee's daughter asked about the Holocaust. So it is indeed a direct comparison between political issues in the U.S. today and the Holocaust.



If you want to construe that as ideological and wacko, go ahead, be my guest.
Click to expand...
I think claiming that a comparison is only about "action rather than inaction" is simply dishonest. It made that comparison specific to the Holocaust and current events.

And I note that you continue to evade my question about the AP story linked in the OP of this thread (and thus completely on topic, unlike your A+B=7 rubbish).

In addition I note that you failed to respond to my repeated questions about the similarities to the Greatest Generation. If we are to "take action" in emulation of the Greatest Generation, doesn't that mean we ought run very high budget deficits like they did leading up to the highest level of public debt (as a percentage of GDP) in U.S. history? Huckabee seems to be saying just the opposite. That we should reduce the size of government drastically. In fact, the small-government and even anti-federal government ideology popular among the right these days would be foreign to patriotic members of the Greatest Generation.
 
mhaze said:
Instead, you have to actually point to the grammar and the words, eg "show your work to back your claim".
Click to expand...

I've done that several times. It's the point where Huckabee says that if he and his like-minded people don't act, some future daughter will ask, "Why didn't someone do something?"--the exact same word for word question his daughter asked about the Holocaust.

These are the specific words, "Why didn't somebody do something?" and the claim "We are the somebodies" in the context I've provided.

Yes--Huckabee actually did that. He compared current political issues, including the federal debt, to the Holocaust.

Pretty outrageous.

Your attempt to spin this as an innocuous comparison to the Greatest Generation doesn't fit, as I've shown several times--at least not without it being about the Greatest Generation's struggle to defeat Fascism and expose the crimes against humanity of the Holocaust. It certainly wasn't about their having lots of children or some other action they took.
 
mhaze said:
No, you did not. You linked to a 30 second excerpt. I provided a link to the entire approximate 28 minute speech, and a written transcript of the section in question in this discussion.
Click to expand...

The 2 minute 36 second segment I linked to was the same section as your transcript.
Any thing in the earlier 25 and almost a half minutes of the speech relevant? Anything in it that makes the question, "Why didn't somebody do something?" not related to the story about visiting the Holocaust memorial?
 
And speaking of things you keep ignoring, what do you make of the Anti Defamation League's criticism of people using the Holocaust and Holocaust references this way (even mentioning by name Bachmann and Huckabee)?

From their statement: "We hope that Rep. Bachmann, Mike Huckabee, and others will weigh their words more carefully and stop invoking this offensive analogy."
 
Joe, there are (at least) three things that are painfully obvious to anyone who's not a knee-jerk partisan and who has an IQ greater than a geranium:
  • Both Bachmann and Huckabee blatantly played the holocaust card in relation to the economic situation
  • To deny this requires laughable semantic contortions
  • mhaze's relentless stream of gibberish will be undaunted by anything that you or anyone else posts
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I realize that. It's what I'm asking you.
....
Click to expand...
I've not offered my opinions on the attitudes by Huckabee and Bachmann except insofar as I've stated them. The reason is that this thread was just another far left drone style political smear and I've been asking for facts, then to actually have you read the facts and understand them.

Yes that may destroy the smear but hey, you've got others, it won't slow you down. (Darn those facts. Darn them).

JoeTheJuggler said:
...That doesn't even make sense. It's not a comparison but it's an allusion of a comparison?
Click to expand...
That is my point. What you are trying to do does not make sense unless you consider it to be an allusion of a similitude, which you certainly can do but it is more than a little bit ridiculous.

JoeTheJuggler said:
.......In addition I note that you failed to respond to my repeated questions about the similarities to the Greatest Generation. If we are to "take action" in emulation of the Greatest Generation, doesn't that mean we ought run very high budget deficits like they did leading up to the highest level of public debt (as a percentage of GDP) in U.S. history? Huckabee seems to be saying just the opposite. That we should reduce the size of government drastically. In fact, the small-government and even anti-federal government ideology popular among the right these days would be foreign to patriotic members of the Greatest Generation.
Click to expand...

Which is why I linked to the full content of his speech, which of course contains the answer to your question.

But if you are onboard with reducing government to the size it was in the 1940s and 1950s, cool. We can start with eliminating the Dept. of Education and Environmental Protection. ;)
 
johnny karate said:
Since this phrase keeps popping up, it should probably be noted at this point that it is utter gibberish.
Click to expand...

As is most everything else mhaze has posted in this thread--including the bit in that last post where he pretends the facts are on his side while continuing to evade questions about the facts.
 
mhaze said:
But if you are onboard with reducing government to the size it was in the 1940s and 1950s, cool. We can start with eliminating the Dept. of Education and Environmental Protection. ;)
Click to expand...

Guess who was actually in most--if not all--positions of authority in our nation when the Dept of Education and the EPA were created? Yup--the Greatest Generation. (Bill Clinton was the first Baby Boomer president.)

So, again, do you suppose Huckabee was arguing we should emulate the fiscal policies of the Greatest Generation? Or do you think maybe he was comparing their struggles against Nazi genocide with the right's struggles to assert its economic ideology and prevent (in his mind) something like a Holocaust from happening?
 
mhaze said:
JoeTheJuggler said:
That doesn't even make sense. It's not a comparison but it's an allusion of a comparison?
Click to expand...

That is my point. What you are trying to do does not make sense unless you consider it to be an allusion of a similitude, which you certainly can do but it is more than a little bit ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah--we wouldn't want anything ridiculous! :rolleyes:

The part I bolded reads like an Abbot & Costello bit.
 
Also, for the record, an allusion is an implied or indirect reference to something. When you explicitly state that something (the Holocaust, the Greatest Generation) it's just a reference, not an allusion.

Don't feel bad, mhaze, sports commentators also get that wrong all the time. They think it sounds more intelligent to say something like, "what you alluded to earlier" rather than "what you said" or "what you referred to".
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Guess who was actually in most--if not all--positions of authority in our nation when the Dept of Education and the EPA were created? Yup--the Greatest Generation. (Bill Clinton was the first Baby Boomer president.)

So, again, do you suppose Huckabee was arguing we should emulate the fiscal policies of the Greatest Generation? Or do you think maybe he was comparing their struggles against Nazi genocide with the right's struggles to assert its economic ideology and prevent (in his mind) something like a Holocaust from happening?
Click to expand...
There isn't any reason to pay attention to your wild fantasies of what you might assert Huckabee thinks when you could just look it up.

That is to say, exactly what he may have had in mind in terms of "action".

Following your logic, firefighters should use submachine guns and soldiers water hoses, depending on historical antecedents, and without regard to logic or reason and it's application to the situation. Situational awareness is key to correct action, and asleep at the wheel is the antithesis.

Yet I understand your assertion to be only a wild strawman, intended to evoke a response and lead into a subject you want to go into. No problem with that.

I'm no admirer of Huckabee, by the way.
 
mhaze said:
There isn't any reason to pay attention to your wild fantasies of what you might assert Huckabee thinks when you could just look it up.

That is to say, exactly what he may have had in mind in terms of "action".

Following your logic, firefighters should use submachine guns and soldiers water hoses, depending on historical antecedents, and without regard to logic or reason and it's application to the situation. Situational awareness is key to correct action, and asleep at the wheel is the antithesis.

Yet I understand your assertion to be only a wild strawman, intended to evoke a response and lead into a subject you want to go into. No problem with that.

I'm no admirer of Huckabee, by the way.
Click to expand...
Obviously you've been drinking the Truther Kool-Aid if you believe that claptrap tinfoil hattery. Semantically it's so obvious that you lack comprehension of even the most basic je ne c'est quoi-de-vivre. And apparently you are no ontologist either, because the fray of the corona around what you are saying is not photosynthetic.

Plebescite!
 
The preceding post was my attempt to make even less sense than mhaze. Was I successful?
 
mhaze said:
which is all you got, joe....save us time and trouble by not figuring out and stating as if it was original, something that I've already said five times.
Click to expand...

No, correcting your misuse of the word "allusion" certainly isn't all I've got.

Did you notice that I made an allusion in my previous post? Did you notice how it differs from Huckabee explicitly talking about the Holocaust?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom