"Dr" Steve Pieczenik

[CompusMentus]

And even though this is a slight digression from the OP (sorry again, CM!), that's part of why it's best to argue claims directly above discussion of who said them. I'm no longer so hardcore about saying that discussion of the claimant is out-of-bounds, but ultimately, what matters is the claim, not the claimant.

What if it turns out that the guy really does have a PhD and did achieve rank really, really fast in the military? I doubt the latter and simply cannot speak towards the former, but like I've said before, I don't care if Einstein and Hawking says that the sun rises in the west; the claim's own merits are what's at question.

Digression welcome.

But the issue here is the claimant. When the claimant is trumpeted because he is an authoritative, reliable source, it's legitimate to question the veracity of that authority. If the effort does bite back I'll be the first to hold my hands up and grovel apologetically.


Compus

 

[TimB1]

He does seem to have a PhD from MIT - well at least their library contains a PhD thesis by him, which is listed here. Title: "The analysis of hostage negotiation through a novel". It's from the early 1980s, so that would be after he'd worked in the State Dept. for one or more administrations.

 

[carlitos]

The only mention of this guy on state.gov is someone asking on the state dept blog asking who he is.

However, in the American Intelligence Journal, which I believe is peer-reviewed, he was credited with 2 articles that listed his honorific.

AIJ 2004 to 2010


2004 (Volume 22)

Obituary: Roy Kenneth Yonkers, Colonel, USAF (Ret)
Analysis in the New Era – Address by Denis Clift, President, Joint Military Intelligence College. NMIA Seminar, November 12, 2002
The Challenges of Creating a New Analytical Culture - Adrian ("Zeke”)Wolfberg
Spy Fiction, Spy Reality - Jon A. Wiant
Transforming Intelligence: Improving Inference Through Advanced Simulations
Better Prediction through Better Inquiry - COL Carl Hunt
Making the Case: Counterintelligence as a Strategic Asset - Roy L. Reed, Jr. and Anthony D. Mc Ivor, PhD
A Mandate for Intelligence - Steve Pieczenik, M.D., PhDColonel General Hans von Seeckt - Dr. Kenneth Campbell

2005 (Volume 23)

Leaves and Roots - CAPT David Belt, USN
Putin: KGB Forever - Steve Pieczenik, M.D., PhD

 

[Childlike Empress]

What if it turns out that the guy really does have a PhD and did achieve rank really, really fast in the military? I doubt the latter and simply cannot speak towards the former, but like I've said before, I don't care if Einstein and Hawking says that the sun rises in the west; the claim's own merits are what's at question.

You're right and that's what I did - listen to him and rate his claims against what I already know from a long line of other sources. He passed the test - he is a well-informed, -connected (and -meaning) insider, I have not the slightest reason to doubt that. So i'm not very eager to double-check his bio. But I welcome you doing it. I listened to this interview from last Thursday btw, for those who are like me allergic to AJ. No idea who Quayle is - seems to be far out in some regards - but he certainly is less annoying than Jones and did a good interview with some very insightful moments.

 

[Oystein]

You're right and that's what I did - listen to him and rate his claims against what I already know from a long line of other sources. ...

...I didn't listen to the Alex Jones interview but to another one...

Hmm... okay...

(He confirmed your prejudices, right?)

 

[beachnut]

And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom. I got one as a present. It stole my will to live. No way he made O-6 at 32. Impossible.

Doctors, MDs, could be O-6 at 32 depending on what kind of MD they are; put the lime in the ...
They bring in doctors as 0-6 some times, they are like walk-ons, first time in the military, get a course on military stuff (something to get them up to speed on things like saluting, the 0-6 will be saluted a lot) and they have instant rank. I makes up for the pay disparity. I have worked with instant O-6s, they were tired of their practice, insurance, ready to travel with the AF, they were usually older.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Hmm... okay...

(He confirmed your prejudices, right?)

Meh. You noticed that I linked to the other interview?

 

[CompusMentus]

Well CE, I beg to differ. He hasn't passed any test for me, yet. I certainly don't want to appear disingenuous but my standards of proof are set a notch or two higher than yours may be.

It does however seem as if his doctorate may be genuine. But we all know by now that a PhD is not always a pre-cursor to reliable, established authourity. Dr Judy Wood being a fine example of this.

I still suspect he's not everything he makes himself out to be.

Compus

 

[alienentity]

Well CE, I beg to differ. He hasn't passed any test for me, yet. I certainly don't want to appear disingenuous but my standards of proof are set a notch or two higher than yours may be.

It does however seem as if his doctorate may be genuine. But we all know by now that a PhD is not always a pre-cursor to reliable, established authourity. Dr Judy Wood being a fine example of this.

I still suspect he's not everything he makes himself out to be.

Compus

A PhD means nothing. Just look at all those NIST engineers, nevermind Bazant, who don't understand conservation of energy!

 

[Childlike Empress]

Well CE, I beg to differ. He hasn't passed any test for me, yet. I certainly don't want to appear disingenuous but my standards of proof are set a notch or two higher than yours may be.

It does however seem as if his doctorate may be genuine. But we all know by now that a PhD is not always a pre-cursor to reliable, established authourity. Dr Judy Wood being a fine example of this.

I still suspect he's not everything he makes himself out to be.

Compus

I have no problems with this. Let's see what the others can dig up.

 

[carlitos]

Eric Snow believes his BS is actually real.

Ah, thanks. In any case, if he logs on, he'll see a link to this topic.

There is little evidence Clancy wrote anything of those novels. At best, Clancy's parents wrote the first two words of each of the titles.

I come from a family of Clancy fans, the "buy everything with his name on it" routine didn't survive the first op center book and we never even touched net force.

[tangent] I haven't read him for years, but I bought the latest book over Christmas. There was a pretty major continuity error in one scene. I emailed both Clancy and the co-author and didn't receive a response. I was a bit surprised by this. They had the bad guy running through Pearson airport in Toronto, to catch a flight to O'Hare, and they forgot that you have to clear immigration up there. It made the chase completely implausible. I've noted a similar thing to another author in the past, and he thanked me for the correction, and updated the paperback. [/tangent]

 

[Oz1976]

I need no prompting from you, I know exactly what my goal is here (as stated)

All that matters, in this thread, is that I read a link that originated elsewhere that made some claims. This leads us here and I would like to verify those claims if possible.

You seem to set some store against this guy. Would you like to try and verify any of his claims? For instance, pick just one of the following:-

A Havard graduate.....

Phd from MIT.....

Doctor of medicine.....

Or a colonel at the age of 32.....


Go on have a go I dares ya.


Compus

I have a hard time believing any of it as well. From what I've been able to find sans CT sites, the only claim that is documented is that he's a member of the CFR.

His site boasts: "Dr. Pieczenik trained in Psychiatry at Harvard and has both an M.D. from Cornell University Medical College and a Ph.D. in International Relations from M.I.T. He was the first psychiatrist ever to receive a PhD. focusing on international relations." http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm

1) MD from Cornell: http://www.cornellpsychiatry.org/education/
So with Undergrad + MD: minimum 8 years unless you're a super brainiac (which I guess he fashions himself as so let's say 7 years)

2) Requirements to entrance in Harvard Medical Schools department of Psychiatry: http://www.hms.harvard.edu/psych/education-medical.htm

3) Phd in International Relations from MIT: http://web.mit.edu/polisci/academic-programs/graduate/phd.shtml
Would take the average PhD student from 4-6 years, and when did he take the pre-reqs?

From his Wiki it appears Cornell was his undergrad and then MD...he later did a residency at Harvard during which he attained his PhD from MIT. So...he completed a psychiatry residency AND his PhD from MIT at the same time?
"Later, he did a psychiatry residency at Harvard, during which time he also attained a Ph.D. in Political Science and International Relations at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology" - from his wiki

His wiki is constantly changing...with all the discussion going on in the AFD. His own site is way too boastful to be taken at face value, especially with the "Classified" Style it's presented in.

From 1985 NY Times Article:
''For some, the thirst for power takes on the character of an addiction,'' said Steve R. Pieczenik, a psychiatrist who has also been a Deputy Assistant Secretary of State.

So by the time he was 42...he's completed his undergraduate degree and medical degree in psychiatry at Cornell. Completed a residency at Harvard Medical School of Psychiatry and a PhD in International Relations from MIT AND worked his way high enough up the ladder to be an Deputy Assistant Secretary of State to either Kissinger 1973-1977, Cyrus Vance 1977-1981, Alexander Haig 1981-1982, or George Shultz 1982-1989.

So...he would have been 29 when Kissinger took office. I don't see how he would have been able to be a deputy under Kissinger. What did this guy do when he finished his studies? Kissinger makes an untested, pretty fresh out of school young man his deputy with no practical experience?

As for the Colonel by the Age of 32...when you look at what I just spent an hour doing, it's not possible. Though this claim is more than likely some embelishment from our friend Alex. It's not mentioned on his Wiki anymore nor is it on his personal site's bio.

The only legitimate thing I can find about this guy, is that he does have some books he's written...all fiction of course, aside of one "self help" book.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Digression welcome.

But the issue here is the claimant. When the claimant is trumpeted because he is an authoritative, reliable source, it's legitimate to question the veracity of that authority. If the effort does bite back I'll be the first to hold my hands up and grovel apologetically.


Compus

Yes, yes, agreed fully in this specific case.

 

[Athyrio]

As for the Colonel by the Age of 32...when you look at what I just spent an hour doing, it's not possible. Though this claim is more than likely some embelishment from our friend Alex. It's not mentioned on his Wiki anymore nor is it on his personal site's bio.

I'm curious too about the rank. Paul Joseph Watson calls him a former Navy Captain (also 0-6) here.

So - was he a Colonel or a Navy Captain? Do Navy Captains refer to themselves as "Colonels"?

Or did he do that simultaneously too?

Seems strange not to mention either one on his personal site.

 

[beachnut]

I'm curious too about the rank. Paul Joseph Watson calls him a former Navy Captain (also 0-6) here.

So - was he a Colonel or a Navy Captain? Do Navy Captains refer to themselves as "Colonels"?

Or did he do that simultaneously too?

Seems strange not to mention either one on his personal site.

Navy Captain is equal to an Army/AF Colonel, O-6. I would call the Navy O-6 a Captain, and the USAF/Army O-6 Col.

When we called in four Captains to visit a Sub at a Navy Base, they were about to send the "Captain's" launch, but they called back to ask if we were in the USAF, we said yes, they sent the liberty shuttle to pick us up instead. USAF Captains are O-3.

In the USAF I have seen medical doctors join the USAF and were given the rank of O-6 on entry, they were usually older.

Since this stuff is associated with woo anyway, it not surprising Dr P writes fiction. He was wrong about UBL, and likes to write fiction. No surprise Alex Jones and PJ Watson use this source to feather their nut case claims.

 

[Athyrio]

I know next to nowt about millitary rankings/systems. Would a rank of Colonel at 32 years old be a first? Anyone have a link where I can check this out?

Of course there were conditions that gave Custer the brevet (temporary) rank of General at age 23, but that was long ago. Then there was General Harrison Thyng who was promoted to full Colonel at age 26, but still, that was a big war time thing.

This site claims that it takes around 22 years to gain 0-6 currently.

 

[beachnut]

Of course there were conditions that gave Custer the brevet (temporary) rank of General at age 23, but that was long ago. Then there was General Harrison Thyng who was promoted to full Colonel at age 26, but still, that was a big war time thing.

This site claims that it takes around 22 years to gain 0-6.

If you are a Doctor of medicine and the military needs doctors they may off you rank of O-5, or O-6 when you enter. They are giving you credit for being a doctor. Not sure what they do now, but I know Doctors who essentally walked off the street and become O-5, or O-6 first day, skipped all the ranks.

You can make rank a year early for O-4 thru O-6, below the zone. In Vietnam time, the time to Capt, O-3 was 3 years. Makes some at O-6 in 18 years.

Medical rank is different. Not sure of the current rules.

 

[triforcharity]

I searched the US Office of the Historian for the S.O.S, and have yet to find his name mentioned anywhere. So, unless he was the assistant (Read: Do-boy coffe maker) to the Deputy S.O.S, then I would say it's lost.

I also emailed the Office of the Historian to see if they could point me to anything that mentions him.

We shall see what we come up with.

 

[1337m4n]

It's interesting that us "debunkers" are coming up with the research results, not "truthers".
This may be indicative of two things:
1. We debunkers know how to research things
2. We debunkers are not afraid of evidence in our disfavour

3. "Truthers" are not interested in pursuing the truth, only in "winning" arguments.

 

[Athyrio]

I'm still curious why he would mention in the AJ article as having been a young 0-6 (whether what branch of military) and that he would not include that reference on his personal website. That would be something to be proud of in any bio.