Bin Laden Dead Truthers Mourn

[Triterope]

What example of American Justice does this give to the world?

That if you wage war on American civilians, one day American elite troops will show up at your front door, kill you dead in front of your family, and then feed you to sharks.

And if you don't approve of that, you can get bent.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

That if you wage war on American civilians, one day American elite troops will show up at your front door, kill you dead in front of your family, and then feed you to sharks.

And if you don't approve of that, you can get bent.

Sometimes you need to show your enemies that, while you don't like to do it, you can speak their language if you have no other recourse. Pakistan, Bin Laden and his people were told in no uncertain terms what we expected and what to expect if the situation didn't change and Bin Laden remained a free man. I wouldn't ever expect Bin Laden to give up peacefully but Pakistan had every opportunity to either help or at least not hinder our pursuit of Bin Laden. They chose to not only hinder our efforts but to actively hide him within one of their cities. They're lucky we didn't just go in with a 2,000 lb bomb dropped smack dab in the center of his compound by a stealth bomber and claim that we had no idea what they were talking about. Luckily for them we wanted to limit civilian casualties and maybe get some intel out of it if possible.

"Hey Pakistan, that's a nice neighborhood you had there. Someone must've been building a bomb in there and it went off. Sorry to hear about that."...

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

True justice will always find a way to do it right.

Sometimes you need to show your enemies that, while you don't like to do it, you can speak their language if you have no other recourse. ...They're lucky we didn't just go in with a 2,000 lb bomb dropped smack dab in the center of his compound by a stealth bomber and claim that we had no idea what they were talking about.

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

 

[triforcharity]

That if you wage war on American civilians, one day American elite troops will show up at your front door, kill you dead in front of your family, and then feed you to sharks.

And if you don't approve of that, you can get bent.

I'll drink to that!!

 

[Caper]

They chose to not only hinder our efforts but to actively hide him within one of their cities.

I've been thinking alot about whether or not Bin Laden was helped by the Pakistani military. I don't think he was. It wouldn't suprise me and if he was shielded, it had to be by VERY few people. If I think of it from Bin Laden's perspective, I just couldn't trust letting people who could so easily contact American government personal and get a cool 25 mill and a no life in the states. I just don't think he would even risk that play... though he seemed to take a risk living where he did..... I don't know... maybe.

 

[Reactor drone]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

You seem to be confused about the difference between law enforcement operations and military operations. This was a military operation in a war and opposition leaders are frequently targeted for destruction in wars in much the same way as you would destroy any enemy warfighting assets.

 

[triforcharity]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement.

It's a good thing you're not in any kind of position of authority that requires critical thinking skills.

That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans.

Specualtion at best. How do you know what drives someone to become a terrorist? Do you have some inside knowledge?

True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man.

Don't lie like that.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/08/two-us-marshals-police-officer-shot-in-st-louis/

OOPS. Suspect killed in gunfight with US Marshals.

http://www.newser.com/story/112211/us-marshal-suspect-killed-in-w-virginia-shootout.html

OOPS! Here's another.
http://www.newser.com/story/112211/us-marshal-suspect-killed-in-w-virginia-shootout.html

Now, how about you stop lying?

The Texas Rangers get their man.

OOPS!!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/02/dps-shoots-kills-slaying-suspect/

Oh, you mean like this?
http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=8710

Yeah, maybe you should stop trying to poison the well. It's not working well. In fact, it makes you look exactly like a liar.

And they bring them in alive.

I posted 4 links with 5 minutes of google searches that prove that sometimes they do not.

Logical fallacy noted, and buried at sea.

They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

Again, conclusion from false assumption.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive.

Yep.

Tear gas.

Possibly.

Noise technology.

If you're reffering to LRADs, they don't work too well behind walls, and not in clear sight.

Knock-out gas.

Sorry, James Bond wasn't available, so we made due with what we had.

Just waiting him out.

Yep, because suspects never kill themselves.

There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head,

Unless he was trying to become an armed man. Or made a move like he had a gun in his coat/tunic/ whateverthe**** they wear.

and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN!

She tried to attack a US Military officer. They don't carry tazers for obvious reasons. She's lucky she didn't get shot in the face.

It only makes America look bad to the world terrorists.

FTFY.

We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Yep, hence why we didn't parade his dead body through the streets, or display his death images all over the world.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

Sorry, my idea of justice is a little less than yours. But, like I said at the beginning, who gives a rats nuts?

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could?

Because they did.

Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive.

Yep, if he didn't decide to turn a gun on himself.

The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill,

Yep, they gave the order to kill him if needed. It's called the ROE, or Rules of Engagement.

and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11.

Most likely would have plead guilty. He's kind of a coward like that. But, we have enough evidence to prosecute him for other crimes that would have guaranteed the death penalty.

9/11 didn't matter as much.

Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

Yep, if they decided to persue that route, but it's doubtfull, as they had plenty of evidence to execute him for when found guilty.

 

[332nd]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

... Did you just compare SEALs to law enforcement?

 

[R.Mackey]

... probably watched RoboCop at an impressionable age...

 

[Clayton Moore]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

Exactly. Maybe our new society/current leadership needs to watch some old westerns.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I've been thinking alot about whether or not Bin Laden was helped by the Pakistani military. I don't think he was. It wouldn't suprise me and if he was shielded, it had to be by VERY few people. If I think of it from Bin Laden's perspective, I just couldn't trust letting people who could so easily contact American government personal and get a cool 25 mill and a no life in the states. I just don't think he would even risk that play... though he seemed to take a risk living where he did..... I don't know... maybe.

I am curious about the apparent use of stealth helicopters. I've seen it claimed that this was to avoid detection by Pakistan itself. That seems to indicate all or most of the Pakistani military was not made aware of the operation. If that's true, I can't help but wonder if it's because of concern that someone within the Pakistani government or military might warn Osama bin Laden of the impending raid.

 

[Myriad]

I am curious about the apparent use of stealth helicopters. I've seen it claimed that this was to avoid detection by Pakistan itself. That seems to indicate all or most of the Pakistani military was not aware of the operation. If that's true, I can't help but wonder if it's because of concern that someone within the Pakistani government or military might warn Osama bin Laden of the impending raid.

I don't wonder about that in the slightest.


Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Oz1976]

LOL.

Yeah I'm sure this frail old man made a threatening move toward the Navy SEALs. Give me a ******* break.

Swearing must be completely masked in public sections of the forum.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

I would like to know your definition of "old"...he was only 54...if 54 is "old" now, man the US is REALLY in trouble if we raise the social security/retirement age to 67....gonna be alot of more frail, older people still in the work place. You act like he was in a wheelchair being pushed around his 72 virgins.

 

[Oz1976]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

I assume in this "waiting out period", the pakistani government and people have no qualms about a bunch of American SF's setting up shop in the streets ya?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

We're lucky you are not in Law Enforcement. That is the kind of lying, sneaky thinking and criminal behavior that creates terrorists and endangers innocent Americans. True Americans never stoop so low. We obey the laws while enforcing the laws. The U.S. Marshals always find a way to get their man. The Texas Rangers get their man. And they bring them in alive. They may have to think a little harder, be quicker, and be better trained. But they do it the right way.

There are SO many ways Bin Laden could have been taken alive. Tear gas. Noise technology. Knock-out gas. Just waiting him out. There was zero reason to shoot an unarmed man in the head, and an unarmed woman in the legs. AN UNARMED WOMAN! It only makes America look bad to the world. We are better than that. As leaders, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior, to show what is truly justice, both at home and abroad.

Obama said "justice has been done" - and he's a Harvard Law School graduate. He should know better. Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

I figure you have to be trolling but just a few points.

1) SEALs aren't law enforcement and I doubt that they see themselves that way. They most certainly aren't Texas Rangers, you watch way too many reruns on TV.

2) Texas Rangers do from time to time kill their targets during apprehension as do any other police force the world over. There is no law enforcement agency on the face of this earth that doesn't allow for deadly force to protect oneself and other innocent people from being killed or having bodily harm done to them.

3) Justice is what people decide it is. In a perfect world Bin Laden would have been brought in without a scratch and tried in front of a jury. We don't live in a perfect world and Bin Laden had no reason to go willingly. We all know that, as did the men who went in after him. He had a long history of violence from the early 80's until the day he died and there's no way that that wasn't taken into account during his attempted capture.

4) I never claimed to be a law enforcement officer but I am aware that if I put up a fight that they will do whatever is required to take me into custody and that if I'm wanted for the violent murder of someone that they will always assume that I'm armed and dangerous until they know (not suspect but know) otherwise and react accordingly. That means a door broken down in the middle of the night with guns drawn is perfectly legal and if I even appear to be reaching for a weapon I can expect pretty much the same results that Bin Laden had.

Finally, that "Lying, sneaky behavior and criminal behavior" as you put it is exactly what was required to finally locate and try to capture Bin Laden and was done after over a decade of trying other less severe methods. Every law enforcement agency has someone above them telling them what is and is not legal. For civilian agencies it's usually the District Attorney's job to approve (or secure approval through a judge) to go outside the normal methods when the situation calls for it. In this case the SEALs had the approval of the President of the United States (which is all that they needed) who clearly didn't do this on a lark with no input from our own legal system. Under our laws the takedown was entirely legal.

The only questionable aspect about the whole thing is the fact that it took place in Pakistan without their express permission. That's a matter for the diplomats to hash out. I personally don't think that Pakistan will do more than give it lip service within their own borders for the extremists in their midst. They do have an avenue available to them in the form of the UN if they want to take it beyond that but I seriously doubt that they will do so because it will put their own country under the magnifying glass.

 

[332nd]

Exactly. Maybe our new society/current leadership needs to watch some old westerns.

... Do you know the difference between real life & a movie? Let me put it this way, if you were to fall off of a tall building, Ryan Renolds would just cringe. Patrick Stewart? He has never been in outer space. The average mma middle weight would beat 7 shades of crap out of Matt Damon.

 

[Furcifer]

Justice is not lynching, execution without a trial. Justice is bringing in fugitives alive, to face trial before a judge and jury.

So why didn't the SEALS do that when they could? Even an armed troop of Boy Scouts using knock out gas could have simply waited him out, and brought him in alive. The answer seems to be that the White House gave orders to kill, and did not WANT him to ever testify, because he would plead not guilty to 9/11. Then the DoJ would have to provide evidence he had anything to do with planning 9/11.

I'm guessing as soon as the Seals saw weapons they couldn't bring him in alive.

Hopefully in the next few days, after the debriefing, the orders will be made public. I'm willing to bet however the mission was to take the house and apprehend Osama at all costs, dead or alive. They had enough intelligence to know he wasn't coming peacefully, but I'd guess they were "authorized" to use lethal force if any threat was identified.

What don't you get about this? It seems pretty simple to me. You can't hide behind armed gunman and not be considered a threat. Whether he had a weapon or not is irrelevant. As long as anyone in that place was moving they were a threat. The best way to keep people from moving it to put a bullet in their brain. Apparently that's exactly what they did.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

Bin Laden's 3 wives and kids in Pakistan custody

Conspiracy Theorists rejoice.

Here's a news report that Bin Laden's wife, 29 year old Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah was the lady the soldier shot in the leg, and is recovering. She is from Yemen and married Bin Laden in 1997 at the age of 15. She and two other wives are in Pakistani custody, and they are interviewing them.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-1...HNlYwNtb3N0LXBvcHVsYXIEc2xrA29zYW1hYmlubGFkZQ

Bin Laden was shot UNARMED. He was a minimal threat to a Navy SEAL. Apparently the plane was to kill Bin Laden, so he could not talk or plead innocent to 9/11.

On Alex Jones, Dr. Steve Pieczenik said that Bin Laden was dead of Marfan's disease in 2001, and that he was frozen on ice waiting for a political need for his death. So that is dubious, and they lose points.
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-04/alex-jones-interviews-dr-steve-r-pieczenik#comment-249220

If the perpetrators were to fake Bin Laden's death, they sure could have made it so much simpler. For example, Bin Laden could have been hiding alone or with a couple guards. Not with 23 kids and 3 wives all around, who would have to corroborate the story. Bin Laden's son Hazim died. Faking all that is too far fetched, even for a Truther like me.

 

[The Doc]

Here's a news report that Bin Laden's wife, 29 year old Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah was the lady the soldier shot in the leg, and is recovering. She is from Yemen and married Bin Laden in 1997 at the age of 15. She and two other wives are in Pakistani custody, and they are interviewing them.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-1...HNlYwNtb3N0LXBvcHVsYXIEc2xrA29zYW1hYmlubGFkZQ

Bin Laden was shot UNARMED. Obviously he could no be allowed to talk or plead innocent to 9/11.

First and foremost, Bin Laden has confessed to 9/11 on multiple occasions, both in planned al-Qaeda media releases (for example, in 2004, 2007 and on various audio tapes) and in a tape recovered by US forces in 2001. Other high ranking persons in al-Qeada have made similar claims repeatedly.

To any thinking person, the guilt of Osama Bin Laden's and his role in the 9/11 attacks are clear. The arguments to the contrary have long since been proven wrong. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you're wrong, and no one owes it to you to try and explain it any further. If you don't understand it by now, you never will, and attempting to convince you otherwise would be a fantastic waste of time.

Second, your pathetic apologist argument in defense of bin Laden is just ridiculous. Intelligence analysts had assumed for a long time (based on reports and historical behavior) that Osama was always in reach of a suicide vest or other explosives. The violence of action exhibited by the DEVGRU SEALs during the raid in Abbottabad was absolutely necessary to ensure the safety of all U.S. personnel involved.

 

[Clayton Moore]

First and foremost, Bin Laden has confessed to 9/11 on multiple occasions, both in planned al-Qaeda media releases (for example, in 2004, 2007 and on various audio tapes) and in a tape recovered by US forces in 2001. Other high ranking persons in al-Qeada have made similar claims repeatedly.

To any thinking person, the guilt of Osama Bin Laden's and his role in the 9/11 attacks are clear. The arguments to the contrary have long since been proven wrong. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you're wrong, and no one owes it to you to try and explain it any further. If you don't understand it by now, you never will, and attempting to convince you otherwise would be a fantastic waste of time.

Second, your pathetic apologist argument in defense of bin Laden is just ridiculous. Intelligence analysts had assumed for a long time (based on reports and historical behavior) that Osama was always in reach of a suicide vest or other explosives. The violence of action exhibited by the DEVGRU SEALs during the raid in Abbottabad was absolutely necessary to ensure the safety of all U.S. personnel involved.

I don't see anyone defending bin laden. I do hear people questioning what our SEALs were ordered to do and why.