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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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bikerdruid said:
saudi arabia was once part of israel?
hardly.....the map is a lie.
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LOL! I had to keep looking at that map to see what on Earth you are on about. I think Stout has identified the problem. The Sinai peninsula and the Arabian peninsula are on opposite sides of Israel.

Stout said:
As an aside...Now that Egypt has decided to open the Rafah border crossing, what, if any effect will this have on upcoming "freedom flotillas" ?
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I imagine that the blockade will become pretty meaningless now as goods can go back and forth through the Rafah crossing.
 
ANTPogo said:
They could, if the governments of those Arab countries didn't also treat them like second-class crap. In Jordan, for instance, there are over a third of a million Palestinians still living in refugee camps, and while Jordanian citizenship was granted to the Palestinians after the Jordanians occupied the West Bank, that citizenship is now being revoked.
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Yeah, the Palestinians living in Kuwait are not exactly treated with fondness either.
 
ANTPogo said:
They could, if the governments of those Arab countries didn't also treat them like second-class crap. In Jordan, for instance, there are over a third of a million Palestinians still living in refugee camps, and while Jordanian citizenship was granted to the Palestinians after the Jordanians occupied the West Bank, that citizenship is now being revoked.
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Oh yes, I forgot the Palestinians and the Jordanians don't get on with each other. Never did, never will by the looks of things. It seems everybody in the neighbourhood isn't fond of the Palestinians not just Israel.

The Palestinians don't appear to play well with others.
 
The Fool said:
Yes, besides being the party in power in Israel they are largely irrelevant.
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Do you understand that Likud is not Israel?


The Fool said:
How many times have I got to point out that I am not and have never said "nothing at all is expected from the palestinians" Much is expected, Stop attacking Israel, cooperate in establishing sensible borders are the ones that come to mind as the most important. How many times do I have to explain this before you give up?
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Don't you think actually amending the Charter in writing is an essential first step towards "Stop attacking Israel, cooperate in establishing sensible borders"?
 
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WildCat said:
Do you understand that Likud is not Israel?

Don't you think actually amending the Charter in writing is an essential first step towards "Stop attacking Israel, cooperate in establishing sensible borders"?
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I would think rather enforcing the borders the world recognized for the country in 1948 would be the first thing to do. That would end the military dictatorship it operates in the West Bank and the criminal occupation of it and East Jerusalem and the Syrian Heights. It is also necessary to break the criminal blockade of Gaza.
 
Palestine Authority to reunite.

Israel announces it will steal the PA's tax money.

Talk about playing into a stereotype ...
 
a_unique_person said:
You are just being offensive. How about instead of setting up someone for your usual anti-semitic accusations, you just ask people what they think then see what you think. The whole carve up of ethic areas throughout history by imperialist powers has been a disaster, with perhaps the exception of SE Asia, which seems to have been largely left as it was found. Jordan was once such example. It was nothing to do with Jews or Arabs, but the British Empire overlords. Yes, it was wrong, and it ignored completely the aspirations of those who lived there. Do you want to argue it wasn't wrong? If not, I guess we are done. I would like to know what you source your map from, IIRC, it's not that right.
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Well, saying it's all wrong was his point. The question is why you only want to focus on the "wrong" of one group of people while apparently ignoring the greater wrong of another group of people.
 
Pardalis said:
I've never seen you, or the Fool, or Firegarden, or DDT accuse Jordan of stealing Palestinian land.

I guess for one to be a thief one has to be a Jew right?

Why are we always only talking about Western Palestine? What about the Eastern side? Wasn't that "Palestinian land" too?

Here's a more objective, un-ideological map:



That whole yellow part was also "Palestine". Now it's not, so where's the uproar? Where are all the defenders of Palestinians' right of return to their homeland?

The whole shebang is their "homeland is it not?
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I do take it, from this map thought, that you do think that

*Palestinians are real
*Palestine existed.

Because people such as Joan Peters deny this basic fact.
 
Pardalis said:
No. I personally think that neither Jordan or Israel are "stolen" land.
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yet you still want to say that there is a list of people that don't condemn them for stealing palestinian land....when you don't think they stole anything?? Rather strange.





But that being said, if you keep insisting Israel is stolen land,
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find where I have said this, you are simply making stuff up.


you should apply the same logic, even if I consider it a failed logic, if you want to be consistent, to Jordan as well, which you don't, which makes me wonder why. The only thing that makes Israel different is well... you know what.
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no I don't know what, please don't let cowardice prevent you from expanding on it. You can't run this anti-semite slur forever son.....time is running out.
 
Mycroft said:
Well, saying it's all wrong was his point. The question is why you only want to focus on the "wrong" of one group of people while apparently ignoring the greater wrong of another group of people.
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Nope...it largely depends on what apologists are around. Nobody is defending one groups wrongs while there is a conga line of apologists for the other. Even someone with a consistant viewpoint is going to end up squabbling with the apologists....

why don't you try being an apologist for Arab Racism?....then you would see that just as many people pick you apart..
 
a_unique_person said:
I do take it, from this map thought, that you do think that

*Palestinians are real
*Palestine existed.

Because people such as Joan Peters deny this basic fact.
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A thinly veiled attempt at a dodge.

Yes, Palestinians are real. Now, do you think Jordan stole Palestinian land? If so, should they give it back? If not, why not?
 
mortimer said:
A thinly veiled attempt at a dodge.

Yes, Palestinians are real. Now, do you think Jordan stole Palestinian land? If so, should they give it back? If not, why not?
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Sovereignty and private property land ownership are entirely different things.

Israel stole the private property of Palestinians under the color of the absentee owner law which is still in effect.

It is theft under color of law because an owner who tries to cease to be absent is murdered by Jews.
 
mortimer said:
A thinly veiled attempt at a dodge.

Yes, Palestinians are real. Now, do you think Jordan stole Palestinian land? If so, should they give it back? If not, why not?
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I already addressed that. At the time the states were being carved out by the imperial powers, the "King" of Jordan was given land that did not align with the existing ethnic groups. Did you not read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_West_Bank_and_East_Jerusalem_by_Jordan

The Jordanians should have given the Palestinians their own state when they occupied the West Bank. The Jordanians were given legal recognition of this by their imperial overlords. The Arab League opposed this.


Are we all agreed on that, or would you like to start a general Jordan/Palestine thread where we can agree with each other for several thousand posts.
 
a_unique_person said:
The Jordanians should have given the Palestinians their own state when they occupied the West Bank. The Jordanians were given legal recognition of this by their imperial overlords. The Arab League opposed this.
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The human right to self-determination is not something to be withheld at whim.

That Jews are presently standing in the way of the human right of Palestinians to self-determination by means of an imposed military dictatorship is not in question.
 
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