Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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I can't help but think of DOC's posts like flaming bags of dog poo.

He swings by, drops the bag, rings the door bell and runs away.

I just wonder how much crap he has stored up that allows him to keep coming back.
 
joobz said:
I can't help but think of DOC's posts like flaming bags of dog poo.

He swings by, drops the bag, rings the door bell and runs away.

I just wonder how much crap he has stored up that allows him to keep coming back.
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Maybe he's just got a lot of dogs.
 
Fancy using a fundamentalist like Geiseler and this Ramsay fellow who has as much credibility as your average politician to win an argument.
 
joobz said:
Given his views on Corporal punishment, I fear for those dogs.
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DoNotWant.jpg
 
Mojo said:
Luke made up a census to make the site of Christ's birth fit with OT prophecies. This is not something that would be done by a great historian, or even by a competent historian, if they had any integrity.

All Ramsay's endorsement of Luke means is that Ramsay is not a reliable source.
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This 1100+ page HIgh School history book (Copyright 2005)

http://www.amazon.com/McDougal-Littell-World-History-Interaction/dp/0618377689

says this on page 168

"Although the exact date is uncertain historians believe that sometime around 6 - 4 BC a Jew named Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea."

You should write the publishers and tell them you found an opinion off the internet that disagrees with their historians.

Also when you think about it if Luke was going to make something up, wouldn't it have made more sense to simply say something like Joseph and Mary decided to visit relatives in Joseph's hometown of Bethlehem and Jesus was born there. It doesn't make sense for a highly detailed acclaimed historian to make something up about a census that could possibly be shown as incorrect by your enemies. Also if he did make it up, funny how no contemporary writers for hundreds of years as far as we know said "hey wait a minute there was not a census in that year" (especially since Christianity was a threat to your empire's religion).

In fact can anyone give the name of the first person (and what year they said it) who said there was no census in that year? So far all we know is that someone said it about 20 centuries later.

So once again at least according to the above High School History book (Copyright 2005) Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
 
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DOC said:
This 1100+ page HIgh School history book (Copyright 2005)

http://www.amazon.com/McDougal-Littell-World-History-Interaction/dp/0618377689

says this on page 168

"Although the exact date is uncertain historians believe that sometime around 6 - 4 BC a Jew named Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea."

You should write the publishers and tell them you found an opinion off the internet that disagrees with their historians.

Also when you think about it if Luke was going to make something up, wouldn't it have made more sense to say something like Joseph and Mary decided to visit relatives in Joseph's hometown of Bethlehem and Jesus was born there. It doesn't make sense for a highly detailed acclaimed historian to make something up about a census that could possibly be shown as incorrect by your enemies. Also if he did make it up, funny how no contemporary writers for hundreds of years as far as we know said "hey wait a minute there was not census in that year" (especially since Christianity was a threat to your empire's religion).

In fact can anyone give the name of the first person (and what year they said it) who said there was no census in that year. So far all we know is that someone said it about 20 centuries later.

So once again at least according to the above High School History book (Copyright 2005) Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
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DOC, Luke wrote about a census that never took place. This means that he was either an incompetent historian or a liar.
 
Mojo said:
DOC, Luke wrote about a census that never took place. This means that he was either an incompetent historian or a liar.
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You're opinion is noted but I just listed a recent High School history book that said historians believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem, so as I said you should write the publishers and tell them about the opinion you got off the internet.
 
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DOC said:
In fact can anyone give the name of the first person (and what year they said it) who said there was no census in that year.
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Can you give the name the first person (and what year they said it) who said that Jesus Christ didn't die in that year?
 
DOC said:
You're opinion is noted but I just listed a recent High School history book that said historians believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem, so as I said you should write the publishers and tell them about the opinion you got off the internet.
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What non-biblical sources do these historians cite?
 
Also if he did make it up, funny how no contemporary writers for hundreds of years as far as we know said "hey wait a minute there was not census in that year"
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Which year did Luke say this census took place in?
 
DOC said:
This 1100+ page HIgh School history book (Copyright 2005)

http://www.amazon.com/McDougal-Littell-World-History-Interaction/dp/0618377689

says this on page 168

"Although the exact date is uncertain historians believe that sometime around 6 - 4 BC a Jew named Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea."

You should write the publishers and tell them you found an opinion off the internet that disagrees with their historians.
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Perhaps you should write to them and ask them which historians they're talking about and what evidence they used to arrive at this belief that they hold and present that instead of just posting ads for schoolbooks.



DOC said:
Also when you think about it if Luke was going to make something up, wouldn't it have made more sense to simply say something like Joseph and Mary decided to visit relatives in Joseph's hometown of Bethlehem and Jesus was born there. It doesn't make sense for a highly detailed acclaimed historian to make something up about a census that could possibly be shown as incorrect by your enemies.
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Your subjective opinion of what does and doesn't make sense is nothing like evidence for what actually happened, DOC. (Thank the Aten)



DOC said:
Also if he did make it up, funny how no contemporary writers for hundreds of years as far as we know said "hey wait a minute there was not census in that year" (especially since Christianity was a threat to your empire's religion).
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As far as we know? Okay then, let's see all your evidence for what these 'contemporary writers' didn't write.



DOC said:
In fact can anyone give the name of the first person (and what year they said it) who said there was no census in that year. So far all we know is that someone said it about 20 centuries later.
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That's not the way it works, DOC. It is not our responsiblity to find some historical reference that says "the census that DOC is talking about never occurred". It's your claim that the census did take place, so it's up to you to produce some evidence for it.



DOC said:
So once again at least according to the above High School History book (Copyright 2005) Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
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''Whether Jesus ever actually existed has long been debated. The argument (very well documented) is that there is absolutely no corroborating evidence of his existence in documents other than highly suspect Christian sources."

– Riane Eisler (The Chalice & the Blade, p122)​


Check.
 
DOC said:
You're opinion is noted but I just listed a recent High School history book that said historians believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem, so as I said you should write the publishers and tell them about the opinion you got off the internet.
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Your (note the spelling) presentation of an extract from what could at best be described as a tertiary source is in no way, shape or form evidence for your fanciful claims, DOC.

And since you appear, somewhat out of the blue, to have nowt but disdain for opinions expressed on the internet, might one enquire as to what value you place on your own opinions, expressed here as they are through exactly the same medium?

A bit hypocritical aren't you all of a sudden?
 
Akhenaten said:
''Whether Jesus ever actually existed has long been debated. The argument (very well documented) is that there is absolutely no corroborating evidence of his existence in documents other than highly suspect Christian sources."

– Riane Eisler (The Chalice & the Blade, p122)​
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The above person with a degree is sociology and law is simply wrong as I have shown many times in this thread.
 
Mojo said:
My emphasis - is there a specific name for this fallacy?
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There is no fallacy in giving the number of pages in a high school history book. If I would have said the truth in the book is dependent on the number of pages that would be a fallacy, but I didn't say that.
 
DOC said:
There is no fallacy in giving the number of pages in a high school history book. If I would have said the truth in the book is dependent on the number of pages that would be a fallacy, but I didn't say that.
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In that case there was no point in giving the number of pages in the book. Why did you do it?
 
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