Merged Obama Birth Certificate Released

gnome said:
To be fair, I don't think they mean the term literally when they say "progressive", they are referring to whatever subgroup in American politics likes to refer to themselves as "progressive".

When we say "Democrat" or "Republican" we are hardly referring to ideologies competing over whether to have a direct or representative democracy.
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But those are the names of parties (which is why, for example a Democrat is not necessarily the same as a democrat). But we do not have a Progressive Party. Rather we are talking about little "p" progressives. If it doesn't refer to people who are progressive, it's not a good use of the term.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
But those are the names of parties (which is why, for example a Democrat is not necessarily the same as a democrat). But we do not have a Progressive Party. Rather we are talking about little "p" progressives. If it doesn't refer to people who are progressive, it's not a good use of the term.
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ah....so, 'progressive' does not mean progressive.....:boggled:
you amuricans are so amusing....:D
 
bikerdruid said:
ah....so, 'progressive' does not mean progressive.....:boggled:
you amuricans are so amusing....:D
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I think maybe you misread my post. I was agreeing with you.

ETA: Or maybe you meant to quote Gnome and hit the "quote" button on my post by mistake. I've done that before.
 
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mhaze said:
You know, that does have a perverse and debased logic to it. It sort of goes like this:
"If I get the power, you are an idiot and a nutter to think that there is any way, any time, that you have a chance to take it away just because I don't deserve it, because I'm a liar, or for any other reason, such as some damn law, constitutional issue, or any other thing. Because once I've got the power, chump, you is a nutter to think it ain't mine. Got it, buddy?"
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Yes, bikerdruid, we get your drift and sentiment, and understand quite well the progressive take on any of a number of matters, this being just one example.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, whenever you find yourself making up quotes and putting those words in the mouth of your opponent, it's pretty likely you are arguing against a strawman.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
But those are the names of parties (which is why, for example a Democrat is not necessarily the same as a democrat). But we do not have a Progressive Party. Rather we are talking about little "p" progressives. If it doesn't refer to people who are progressive, it's not a good use of the term.
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It is even my observation that "little p" progressives, though not an official party, form a political group (by self-identification) that is not limited to only the dictionary definition of progressive, and it is to this group (usually composed of those on the left who are disaffected with the Democrats) that they are referring to.

They play word games too, but I don't think they literally object to any form of progress.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, whenever you find yourself making up quotes and putting those words in the mouth of your opponent, it's pretty likely you are arguing against a strawman.
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Hear, hear.
 
randman said:
Cue massive apologies from Obama defenders who laughably insisted it wasn't possible for him to obtain a certified copy of his long-form birth certificate.

Birthers have nothing to apologize for. Obama should have produced this years ago. Why would he not have done that? What does that say about the man?
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Why Randman, did you ask John McCain and GWB to do the same. I was born in 1958, I have a certifed CoLB, that is ALL the *********** law requires.

Unless of course you are Obama.

So when did GWB cough up his?
 
gnome said:
It is even my observation that "little p" progressives, though not an official party, form a political group (by self-identification) that is not limited to only the dictionary definition of progressive, and it is to this group (usually composed of those on the left who are disaffected with the Democrats) that they are referring to.

They play word games too, but I don't think they literally object to any form of progress.
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And I'm sure you can provide evidence of these non-progressive progressives?

I won't be holding my breath waiting for these examples, because I think you're wrong. The Democratic Congressional Progressive Caucus, for example (and again note the big "P") is decidedly progressive. Ditto the PDA (Progressive Democrats of America). These entities are both big and little "p" progressives/Progressives.

You introduced the idea that the Democratic and Republicans aren't necessarily democratic or republican, respectively, and I agree. But that is distinguishable from the term progressive--at least here in the U.S. where there is no national Progressive Party.
 
Dancing David said:
Why Randman, did you ask John McCain and GWB to do the same. I was born in 1958, I have a certifed CoLB, that is ALL the *********** law requires.
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Ditto with me, and I was born the exact same year as Obama, but in Missouri. And contrary to what Trump said, the CoLB indeed satisfies Homeland Security for purposes of getting a driver's license. I did later, though, request and obtain a long form just so I could have the time of birth to be used in an astrology challenge. In Missouri, either form (both of which are not original birth certificates, I know because I have an unofficial photocopy of my actual original birth certificate and neither of these new forms look like it) is readily available, though the default is the short form. IIRC, the long form had a higher fee too.
 
Travis said:
He had to use Presidential authority to override a Hawaii law. Something I would generally hope Presidents don't do with great haste.
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No he didn't. He asked for an exception to be made, something that the bureaucrat in question had the power to make. He used his position as president to argue for why an exception SHOULD be made, but he had no legal power to force the exception, and exceptions can be made for others as well. It's silly that it got to this point, but this was not an exercise of presidential authority, and Hawaiian law was not overriden.
 
randman said:
No, the short-form only showed someone registered his birth as born in Hawaii; hence the need for the long-form.

Glad he finally complied. What took him so long?
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?? The "short form" is acceptable in ALL legal proceedings. Feel free to name ANY instance where they would reject the short form and demand a long form.

The short form showed that he was born in Hawaii, not that someone registered his birth in Hawaii. I heard a lot of talk about people being able to register births in Hawaii but have yet to see any examples of the law stating this nor any examples of anyone registering a non-Hawaii birth as a Hawaii birth.
 
Lurker said:
Packer 1
Lurker 0

OK, name another!
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Not a legal requirement, but when we were trying to devise a test of an astrologer's claims, I found you usually needed the long form to find the time of birth.

(Though I argued that since there is no established definition, and clocks on hospital walls might not be accurate to the minute, the hyper-accuracy the astrologer was demanding was bogus--especially since he would doubtlessly never turn away a paying customer who didn't have that information.)
 
I want to hear the POTUS just once say, very clearly, and very concisely: "Go pound sand."
 
Alareth said:
@pattonoswalt: Why won't the White House release the results of the sticking-a-hot-wire-in-a-dish-of-Obama's-blood test? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
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If he's so funny, why was he on "King of Queens," a show that showcased the unfunny Kevin James and the "he was funny 50 years ago" Jerry Stiller?
 
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