Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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ANTPogo said:
He means the anonymous 1995 certificate produced by Miki Booth, claiming it was issued on March 15, 2011.

It's almost certainly a forgery.
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I tracked down the origination of this document and it's from a "The Post & Email" article written by Miki Booth in case anyone wants to see it.
 
Newtons Bit said:
I tracked down the origination of this document and it's from a "The Post & Email" article written by Miki Booth in case anyone wants to see it.
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That's not the first time it's appeared, either. On March 17, 2011 (two days after the certificate displayed at the above link was supposedly stamped), the Post and Email displayed a poor-quality white-paper photocopy of the exact same certificate (redacted differently and missing the date and registrar signature stamps) as part of their article about a petition to Governor Abercrombie.
 
Oh, and regarding whether Obama might have been born at home instead of a hospital:

According to Vital Statistics of the U.S – Volume 1: Natality, there were 14,874 births in Honolulu in 1961. 14,814 of those were births in a hospital with a physician attending. Just 92 were born outside of a hospital. That's just 0.62 percent.

The house where both the newspaper announcements of Obama's birth and contemporary directory listings say Stanley Ann Dunham was living with her parents at the time of Obama's birth was less than eight miles from Kapi'olani Maternity Hospital.

Why on Earth do you think Obama might have been born at home?
 
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ANTPogo said:
Oh, and regarding whether Obama might have been born at home instead of a hospital:

According to Vital Statistics of the U.S – Volume 1: Natality, there were 14,874 births in Honolulu in 1961. 14,814 of those were births in a hospital with a physician attending. Just 92 were born outside of a hospital. That's just 0.0062 percent.

The house where both the newspaper announcements of Obama's birth and contemporary directory listings say Stanley Ann Dunham was living with her parents at the time of Obama's birth was less than eight miles from Kapi'olani Maternity Hospital.

Why on Earth do you think Obama might have been born at home?
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Actually, it's 0.62 percent ;)
 
Sabrina said:
People REALLY need to look up the definition of "certified copy"; 'cause the COLB that's already been released IS a "certified copy".

'Nuff said.
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LOL! Yes, by all means look at the actual definition of certified ... like I did in post #2790 where I offered source after source after source (with no cherry picking since I quoted every one on the first page or two that came up in a search of the definition) that absolutely disagree with your side's definition. Your side of this debate offered no sources to challenge those definitions other than your own made up one. Yes, by all means prove to me that the COLB actually meets the definition of "certified copy". :D
 
BeAChooser said:
Yes, by all means prove to me that the COLB actually meets the definition of "certified copy". :D
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Hawaii has thought so for about two decades now (and has used it as the only certified copy they'll issue for the last ten years).

Call me crazy, but I think I'll trust Hawaii's interpretation of their laws over your interpretation.
 
BeAChooser said:
Your side of this debate offered no sources to challenge those definitions other than your own made up one. Yes, by all means prove to me that the COLB actually meets the definition of "certified copy". :D
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Asked and answered, BaC. Everytime one of us posts a lengthy reply to one of your rants you disappear and refuse to comment. Then you come back and pretend like counter arguments were never provided. You're a broken record.

§338-13
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
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The director chose to use computer printout. As the law allows. Why can't you understand this?
 
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ANTPogo said:
And I've already pointed out in this thread that Dr. Fukino was responding to the accusations that Governor Lingle had ordered Obama's records to be sealed when she made that statement, and has nothing to do with your continued misreading of Hawaii law.
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Here again is what Fukino said:

I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i."
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Fukino admits the long form is a "vital record" and tacitly admits it should not be handled any different than any other "vital record". And since the law clearly states that the registrant (that would be Obama) has the right to get a "certified copy" of "any" "vital record", I rest my case that you once again are lying. :D
 
BeAChooser said:
Fukino admits the long form is a "vital record" and tacitly admits it should not be handled any different than any other "vital record".
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No, she's officially denying that Governor Lingle ordered Obama's records (and only Obama's records) to be sealed, as she was falsely accused of doing by your fellow birthers.

And since the law clearly states that the registrant (that would be Obama) has the right to get a "certified copy" of "any" "vital record", I rest my case that you once again are lying. :D
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No, he doesn't have the right to get a "certified copy" of "any" "vital record" (not in the way you mean). He can get the certified copy that the State of Hawaii issues to everyone who requests one (the "short form"), and that's the only certified copy he (or any other person born in Hawaii) can get.

Just like every single Hawaiian state official and website has repeatedly stated and confirmed.

Call me liar all you want, it still won't change the reality and truth of what I say.

Which is why, of course, you can't find anyone who actually was able to get a certified copy of their long form after at least 2001. Back when Obama was nothing more than an Illinois state senator, Hawaii was refusing to issue certified copies of long form birth certificates to anyone.
 
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Oh, by the way, BAC. You know that "soldier" who was court-martialed for refusing to deploy unless Obama released his "long form" certificate (you rail at Obama for letting him go to Leavenworth instead)? Soon-to-be-ex-Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin?

His daughter was born in Hawaii. And yet, Lakin himself was unable to obtain a copy of the certified "long form" you say he is legally entitled to get under Hawaiian law, as the parent of the registrant.

Lakin's own brother even admitted to the above that Lakin's daughter's "long form" was unavailable, on the Andrea King radio show. You can even hear the audio here, if you like.

That's right, BAC. The hero that you and randman so idolize and excoriate Obama for letting go up the river, threw away his military career by demanding that Obama do something that Lakin himself had been unable to do!
 
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ANTPogo said:
Oh, by the way, BAC. You know that "soldier" who was court-martialed for refusing to deploy unless Obama released his "long form" certificate (you rail at Obama for letting go to Leavenworth instead)? Soon-to-be-ex-Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin?

His daughter was born in Hawaii. And yet, Lakin himself was unable to obtain a copy of the certified "long form" you say he is legally entitled to get under Hawaiian law, as the parent of the registrant.

Lakin's own brother even admitted to the above that Lakin's daughter's "long form" was unavailable, on the Andrea King radio show. You can even hear the audio here, if you like.

That's right, BAC. The hero that you and randman so idolize and excoriate Obama for letting go up the river, threw away his military career by demanding that Obama do something that Lakin himself had been unable to do!
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Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
 
Here's a transcript, for those who don't want to sit through the audio.

The relevant portion:

Foggy: So I'm wondering why ... it probably would have made his appeal to the public more powerful if he had gone ahead and gotten a long form birth certificate for his daughter. If he could order one today, y'know, like everybody wants Obama to do, and pay ten or fifteen bucks to order the long form birth certificate, and then show it to people and say, "I got my own daughter's long form birth certificate, how come Obama can't get his?" Did he ever try that?

Greg: You know, he did, and I actually ... he tried to do it through the mail, and I actually tried to do it personally when I was over there, because I've spent time in Hawaii too, and the Office of Vital Statistics was closed that Friday.

But I will tell you that he's ... as a physician over there, he's seen numerous birth certificates, and that Certificate [sic] of Live Birth is something he'd never seen before, nor is it a birth certificate.

And then he personally signed off on ... he's been the delivery physician, not in Hawaii but at Fort Bragg ...

Foggy: Wait a minute. Are you saying the Certification of Live Birth is not a birth certificate?

Greg: I'm saying it's not the original birth certificate, or a copy of the original birth certificate.

Foggy: No, it's not. It's not. I agree with that but I mean ... in any event, so he never actually did pursue it and try to get a copy of his own daughter's long form birth certificate.

Greg: You know, I honestly can't answer that. I know she has one. I know she has one, just like all birth certificates, you know, all birth certificates that I've signed have location and doctor's name and other people ... they have information on them. And so I know that his daughter has one. But yeah, no I don't know if he's personally got one or could do that, in any type of ...

Would it be compelling evidence? I think you're probably right.

Foggy: I just posted a link in the chat room.
(http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl)

And if you go to that link, the Hawaii government state website says you can't get a long form birth certificate any more ... even if ... and that's a link to a program they do for Native Hawaiians, y'know, ethnic Hawaiians, that if you're more than 50% ethnic Hawaiian, they try to help you with all kinds of programs, it's called the Hawaiian Homelands Program.

And they say they prefer the long form birth certificate if you have one, but they explain on the website that they don't give them out any more, and that if you don't have your long form birth certificate right now, if you apply for a birth certificate, you're gonna get a COLB, a Certification of Live Birth, just like the one that Obama published ...

... and that's why I was wondering, the state of Hawaii ... that even for people they're trying to help because they're ethnic Hawaiian, if they can't get a long form birth certificate, and if Terry couldn't get a long form birth certificate for his own daughter, then how is President Obama supposed to get a long form birth certificate for himself?

Greg: Right.

ASK: Well, that's a good question. Yeah.

Greg: Well, I think that's something that's fairly recent within the last few years, because it's always been ... before ... y'know I understand we've all gone to electronic records now, but ...
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Lakin's brother says LTC Terry Lakin tried to get a copy of his own daughter's long-form certificate by a variety of methods, but was completely unable to. Lakin's brother's excuse for why he couldn't? "Well, they're all electronic records now."

What say you, BAC?
 
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