Progressive Radio Rants -- Minimum Wage

[Neally]

The problem people have with employers is simple: They often take a disproportionate amount of the profits for themselves at the expense of the lower class workers.

Define "disproportionate". Do you think the the employer should earn the same as the employee? What incentive would there ever be to be a business owner?

They all deserve at least a day's provisions before the investors get a freaking penny.

Why? You've dictated that the worker deserves a days provisions for their effort, yet you deny the owner the same. What makes one human deserving of food and shelter and not another?

 

[leftysergeant]

Define "disproportionate".

A hundred times the mean income is pretty disproportionate, don't you think?

Do you think the the employer should earn the same as the employee? What incentive would there ever be to be a business owner?

If the employer is making something that the public wants and is paying people a living wage to make it, there is no question that he deserves a bit more because he has brought something other than just his labor to the game. But, if, after paying a living wage to his workers, he still can't make a living wage, what he brought to the game is not worth it and there is no reason to subsidize his sorry butt.

Why? You've dictated that the worker deserves a days provisions for their effort, yet you deny the owner the same. What makes one human deserving of food and shelter and not another?

The same thing that makes the steel seller deserving of the cost of his steel.

 

[Cobalt]

If the employer is making something that the public wants and is paying people a living wage to make it, there is no question that he deserves a bit more because he has brought something other than just his labor to the game. But, if, after paying a living wage to his workers, he still can't make a living wage, what he brought to the game is not worth it and there is no reason to subsidize his sorry butt.

Or, if he'd like to stay in business, which is well within his rights, he'll cut costs, in this case workers, to keep afloat.

The same thing that makes the steel seller deserving of the cost of his steel.

That in no way answered his question.

 

[Francesca R]

The same thing that makes the steel seller deserving of the cost of his steel.

What on earth makes a steel seller deserve the cost of his steel?

Suppose he mined the ore with a teaspoon so that his cost is $1,000,000 per tonne. Does he deserve that?

Your business model sucks.

 

[bikerdruid]

Suppose he mined the ore with a teaspoon so that his cost is $1,000,000 per tonne. Does he deserve that?

wow....hypotheticals should have at least some touch of reality.
iron ore is not mined with a spoon, and it is not worth a million per tonne....
this is about as sensible a reply as the 'why not pay 'em $100/hr' retort.

 

[Ziggurat]

wow....hypotheticals should have at least some touch of reality.
iron ore is not mined with a spoon, and it is not worth a million per tonne....

Perhaps you should spend some time pondering why that is.

 

[leftysergeant]

Suppose he mined the ore with a teaspoon so that his cost is $1,000,000 per tonne.

The first person to come along with a back hoe would eat his lunch.

 

[leftysergeant]

Or, if he'd like to stay in business, which is well within his rights, he'll cut costs, in this case workers, to keep afloat.

As long as he is still paying the remaining people a living wage, not that big a problem. If he can still produce a profit with fewer people, he was screwing up anyway. Either he had a crappy product, or the market was not big enough.

That in no way answered his question.

You are in denial.

 

[Neally]

A hundred times the mean income is pretty disproportionate, don't you think?

Depends on the complexity of the organization, skill needed and the scarcity what is being produced. I'll let the stockholders, customers, and the market sort that out rather than some bureaucrat determine what the minimum and maximum number someone should be paid.

The same thing that makes the steel seller deserving of the cost of his steel.

No one, including me seems to be able to follow your rationale here. Again why should some people be guaranteed food and shelter, and not others?

 

[Francesca R]

The first person to come along with a back hoe would eat his lunch.

Totally screwing him over and denying him the cost of his product, never mind leaving anything over for a day's decent provisions.

Recognised the suckage of your business model yet?

 

[The_Animus]

Define "disproportionate". Do you think the the employer should earn the same as the employee? What incentive would there ever be to be a business owner?

Adjective: Too large or too small in comparison with something else.

I don't think everyone should be paid the same. People should be compensated more if they work more, work more strenuously, lost potential income or racked up student loan debt in order to attain the skills for a position, or if they incur personal financial risk.

I feel that the compensation is often too large though.

 

[leftysergeant]

Depends on the complexity of the organization, skill needed and the scarcity what is being produced. I'll let the stockholders, customers, and the market sort that out rather than some bureaucrat determine what the minimum and maximum number someone should be paid.

So we let the monied interests collude to steal labor? I don't think so.

No one, including me seems to be able to follow your rationale here. Again why should some people be guaranteed food and shelter, and not others?

If somebody else is going to profit from my labor, or from the labor of a group of people, we all deserve a decent day's provisons. It is that freaking simple.

 

[Francesca R]

wow....hypotheticals should have at least some touch of reality.

It's leftysergeant's hypothetical, remember?

 

[leftysergeant]

Totally screwing him over and denying him the cost of his product, never mind leaving anything over for a day's decent provisions.

Recognised the suckage of your business model yet?

Not in the least. The laborer does not define the business model. The entrepreneur does. Nobdoy has to ust give him anything. He has to have a better way of doing things or he has no complaint coming if somebody who does it right runs over him.

 

[Francesca R]

Looks like you've abandoned the idea that a steel seller "deserves" the cost of his steel.

Maybe you've adapted it to "the open market cost of steel". If so congratulations. Now you just need to apply that to labour and we're done.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I just put a new Progressive Radio Rant into my sig, for a couple of days.

 

[Neally]

So we let the monied interests collude to steal labor? I don't think so.

You don't get to make up your own definitions of words, "steal" including.

If somebody else is going to profit from my labor, or from the labor of a group of people, we all deserve a decent day's provisons. It is that freaking simple.

Still haven't answered why another person, the owner, doesn't deserve a decent day's "provisons".

 

[bikerdruid]

Why? You've dictated that the worker deserves a days provisions for their effort, yet you deny the owner the same. What makes one human deserving of food and shelter and not another?

why is it that you folks need to always take stuff to the extreme?
a company owner certainly deserves a day's provisions, as long as his workers are looked after as well.
when a company goes 'belly up', the workers are always paid before the owner, by the trustees.
why should that be any different on the way up as it is on the way out?

 

[Cobalt]

As long as he is still paying the remaining people a living wage, not that big a problem. If he can still produce a profit with fewer people, he was screwing up anyway. Either he had a crappy product, or the market was not big enough.

So you're perfectly fine with a person going from a living wage to no wage whatsoever.

And you'll still champion yourself as someone supporting the middle class. Hilarious.

You are in denial.

Yeah, no. I think you're in love with rah rah fight the powah ******** that sounds nice for you on paper but has no possibilities to work in the Real World™.

why is it that you folks need to always take stuff to the extreme?

What do you mean, "you folks?"

a company owner certainly deserves a day's provisions, as long as his workers are looked after as well.

What you and lefty fail to understand is that he's well within his rights to look after number one, and in doing so he may have to get rid of an employee or two. Dick move? Maybe to you, but life isn't unicorns crapping rainbows and happiness.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And you'll still champion yourself as someone supporting the middle class. Hilarious.

It should be clear enough by now that someone is not being honest without about what his agenda really is. His expressions of concern for the poor and middle class are no different than those expressed by Judas, when he asked why a pound of expensive ointment used to anoint Jesus wasn't instead sold and the proceeds used to help the poor.

“This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.”​