Progressive Radio Rants -- Minimum Wage

Answer: Because you're paying the grass cutter, and you're not paying the factory worker, so you expect the factory owner to pay a minimum wage while you pay whatever you want. You don't practice what you preach, and that's not an assumption, it's an observation.

Another simple observation is that none of these "communists" or "socialists" ever leave the evil capitalist west to live in one of those socialist/communist paradises of the worker(TM).

You're basing wages on how much money the employer has or makes, not how much the job is worth - other than a job done directly for you, of course. How is that reasonable?

It's because support of socialism (in the American sense of "communism or near it overall economic system", not in the European sense of "liberal democracy welfare state") is, for most socialist/communists, merely a badge of self-congratulation. It means they are better than you, so, you see, different rules apply to them to those mean ol' (yeech) businesses.

It's like those "Free Tibet!" folks who have that bumper sticker on their car. Are they doing anything to "Free Tibet"? Of course not. What's more, if Obama tomorrow said, "my God, they're right! I am sending troops in to free Tibet!", they would instantly scream what a warmongering evil-doer he is. The bumber sticker really means, not "Free Tibet", but "I am better than you, aren't you ashamed of yourself for not caring enough?"

Same here. Do any of these folks actually not eat at McDonald's, not wear shoes or clothes made in the far east, etc., etc.? Of course not. It's just a way of saying "look at me -- I am superior!".
 
Not a bit of it. If I am able to cut the grass or to pay someone minimum wage, I have no excuse not to. If I am disabled and an unemployed person wants to earn a quick buck under the table and that's all I can spare, we're both coming out ahead. If I can afford to pay him more than minimum wage, I probably should. If I am hiring him out to cut other people's grass and keeping a cut, he deserves to get paid before I do, whether I clear a profit on the operation or not.
You're doing it again. You're basing what you pay the grass cutter on how much you have, not how much the job is worth. You literally just said that if you have more money you should pay more money, and if you have less money, you are allowed to pay less. Meanwhile..... it's the same exact friggin yard.

Same with the shoe factory. They can't do without the guy who haulks the leather up from the warehouse, or the cobbler, or the guy who clears the work area of flammable materials so that the factory doesn't catch fire and burn down.

They all deserve at least a day's provisions before the investors get a freaking penny.

You haven't been paying attention. If he can't make money and pay a minimum wage, he sucks and should just go get a job flipping burgers until he figures out how to do it right.

If he is paying at least minimum wage and getting rich, yes, his business model kicks ass. He's still a schmuck if all he pays is minimum wage, but there is no law against being a schmuck. Of course, it is his own fault if one of his employees comes up with the capital to open his own business on the same model and attracts all his workers away with minimum wage plus.
You're doing it again. If a guy can't make money, he sucks, but if he makes money, he's a schmuck? What is the precise amount of money someone can make and just simply be good?
 
a company owner certainly deserves a day's provisions, as long as his workers are looked after as well.
Okay, what happens to the owner after all his workers are paid their day's provisions and there's not enough left for his daily provisions, not to mention a bit more for his investment in the business? Shouldn't everyone be guaranteed at least the days provisions, by law?
 
Okay, what happens to the owner after all his workers are paid their day's provisions and there's not enough left for his daily provisions, not to mention a bit more for his investment in the business? Shouldn't everyone be guaranteed at least the days provisions, by law?

or let's say his one legged brother arrives and works a half hour and....and....and....
man, you are absolute, eh?
 
Okay, what happens to the owner after all his workers are paid their day's provisions and there's not enough left for his daily provisions, not to mention a bit more for his investment in the business? Shouldn't everyone be guaranteed at least the days provisions, by law?
Of course not. How many times do I have to tell you that? Maybe i should put it this way:You have no right to prosper while those who enable you to do so are reduced to poverty.
 
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or let's say his one legged brother arrives and works a half hour and....and....and....
man, you are absolute, eh?
Kind of hard answering a reasonable question so you hand wave it away is unrealistic. Is that the strategy? Exactly what is unrealistic about a business losing money?

Of course not. How many times do I have to tell you that? Maybe i should put it this way:You have no right to prosper while those who enable you to do so are reduced to poverty.
Try answering the question. I clearly stated that the workers get paid their guaranteed required daily provisions. Why shouldn't the owner get a guaranteed daily provision wage as well?
 
Your business model sucks.

Right, almost all companies who hire unskilled labor (retailers, grocers, maid services etc) are stupid and have a sucky business model. It is hard to understand how you aren't rich considering that you know more about owning a business than anyone who has ever owned a business. You should be cleaning up with your "knowledge" which isn't stupid at all.
 
Raising the minimum wage hurts them.

Not if the economy has the safety net it is supposed to have.

Lot of people complain that minimum wage hurts people, but these same people won't complain that high wages on the top do it too.
 
Generally those fry cooks cannot get better wages elsewhere because they are considered too young, or too inexperienced, or do not yet have a college degree. So they are left with a take it or leave it option. Great option huh?

Just like there are a lot of people who vote democrat, not because they really support democrats, but because it is the lesser of two evils.

The problem people have with employers is simple: They often take a disproportionate amount of the profits for themselves at the expense of the lower class workers.

Right, unskilled workers are not hired to be doctors because they do not have the needed skills to be a doctor. They are hired to do unskilled work. What is the problem? If they don't want to be unskilled workers they need to develop skills, again, what is the problem?
 
Of course not. How many times do I have to tell you that? Maybe i should put it this way:You have no right to prosper while those who enable you to do so are reduced to poverty.


You only seem to think that this works in one direction. A worker is only able to prosper because of his employer. Without his employer, he has no job. The employer enables the worker to prosper. By the statement that you have here made, this worker has no right to prosper, if his employer is reduced to poverty.
 
Here is the basic problem as I see it.

Practically all business organizations are organized in pyramid fashion. A couple people at the top who are in charge of overall management and direction. More in the middle for administration and specific area management, and a ton at the bottom providing most of the physical work to create the products or provide the service.

Society says that as you move up the pyramid fewer and fewer people in society are capable of doing the job. As a result they are more valuable, while those at the bottom are easily replaceable because there are never enough job supply to fill demand.

While I think this is true to an extent, I also think that a larger proportion of the population can do those 'high up jobs' than society tends to think. This is due to a poor education, and training system, but is also beside the point.

All level of employees are needed for the organization to function and make a profit, but because the higher level positions are deemed harder to replace, the people in those positions are labeled as being more valuable and as such feel justified in a higher wage at the expense of those in lower value positions. Granted those who had to sacrifice money by going to college to get those skills and higher job positions should be compensated more to offset the money lost by not working and racking up student loans.

In this sense people are treated just like a product or commodity. Why pay $2 for a widget when you can get it from another organization for $1? In the same regard, why pay a person $8 for their labor when you can get it from another person for $4? The problem with this is that one is a lifeless object and the other is a living human being who needs basic things to continue living and an additional level of things to live decently.

With an economy like there is now there is great power in the hands of those who are higher up compared to lower on the job rung. Day after day it becomes easier for those people in higher positions to think "There are few who can do what I do, thus I am more valuable and deserve more money. There is a practically unlimited supply of people who can do the bottom rung work though, so I'll continually find people who will do the work for less. If they don't like it they can starve."

And so those at the top get their wages inflated, bonuses raised, etc. While other people lose their jobs or take pay cuts.

I think many people feel there is a fundamental wrongness to this. People are still people even if they are less valuable because of poorer genetics, environment growing up, or lower work effort.

Several things in society have tried to address this and to prevent the gap from rising too much. Unions, minimum wage, and earned income credits are among them. Which is the most efficient? I can't say. It does seem unfortunate though that we need to continually come up with legal systems which try to correct our failing as a species of not acting in ways which benefit the species as a whole over the individual.

Try to start your own business then.
 
Not if the economy has the safety net it is supposed to have.

Lot of people complain that minimum wage hurts people, but these same people won't complain that high wages on the top do it too.

Please demonstrate how how wages for some hurt others, before you do something stupid (which you already have so "more stupid" would fit) understand that wealth is not a zero sum game.
 
Not a bit of it. If I am able to cut the grass or to pay someone minimum wage, I have no excuse not to. If I am disabled and an unemployed person wants to earn a quick buck under the table and that's all I can spare, we're both coming out ahead. If I can afford to pay him more than minimum wage, I probably should. If I am hiring him out to cut other people's grass and keeping a cut, he deserves to get paid before I do, whether I clear a profit on the operation or not.


It's as though part of your brain really wants to acknowledge freedom of contract (and all of its benefits) but your anti-capitalist world view just won't allow it.

Try rereading this part of your statement until you get it:

we're both coming out ahead.
 
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wrong.
the thread is about a minimum wage of $10.
either show where i have claimed that is not enough, or retract your insult.

It isn't and everything you say ** ********.


Edited, breach of rule 0, rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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You only seem to think that this works in one direction. A worker is only able to prosper because of his employer.

This is total BS. It is the same excuse that slave holders used, claiming that the slaves were better off being chattel property with somebody to watch over them, getting nothing while some slave-owning maggot got rich off their labor.
Without his employer, he has no job. The employer enables the worker to prosper. By the statement that you have here made, this worker has no right to prosper, if his employer is reduced to poverty.

Without workers, the bloody drongo would have to do it all by himself. Where is hs profit then?

The capitalist deserves an income only when he performs a useful service. No sick slimebag who buys up resources and does not offer his neighbors a chance to prosper as well is serving a useful purpose.

If the entire investor class died tomorrow, there would be someone to step into the breach to perform those functions.
 
This is total BS.
Except it isn't. Think these things through, as you're so fond of telling other people. That job does not belong to the employee. It belongs to the employer. Your whiny slave analogy is not comparable, since these people are, y'know, not slaves, but employees.

Without workers, the bloody drongo would have to do it all by himself. Where is hs profit then?
For the love of Amaterasu, learn a new insult already. And the answer is obvious and simple.

The capitalist deserves an income only when he performs a useful service. No sick slimebag who buys up resources and does not offer his neighbors a chance to prosper as well is serving a useful purpose.
And yet he's well within his rights to do so. I'm sure this makes you so terribly angry.

If the entire investor class died tomorrow, there would be someone to step into the breach to perform those functions.
What on earth is your point.
 

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