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'Lost Civilisations'

A 'saw' would be an unknown or advanced technology.

As far as we I know there were no saws.
ftfy
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comments

The presence of saws is well attested in every ancient culture and Tiwanaku is a culture from the modern period, why don't you do some research instead of wasting everybodies time.

still we're making progress aren't we. You started by claiming (non)Alien lasers and are now reduced to admitting it could be done with a saw.
 
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Well at least I got evidence for my claim on what KOTA would do :P. Maybe I should go for the million dollar challenge.

I think everybody will have seen by now that KOTA once provided evidence that it was studied and experimented to satisfaction (Hiram Bingham) moved the goal psot LIKE CREATIONIST and added a new requirement.
 
ftfy
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comments

The presence of saws is well attested in every ancient culture and Tiwanaku is a culture from the modern period, why don't you do some research instead of wasting everybodies time.

still we're making progress aren't we. You started by claiming (non)Alien lasers and are now reduced to admitting it could be done with a saw.

A saw is a high tech piece of kit. How could those ancient eejits have invented it? Kota has convinced me. All hail our (non) alien masters!
 
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...

I think everybody will have seen by now that KOTA once provided evidence that it was studied and experimented to satisfaction (Hiram Bingham) moved the goal psot LIKE CREATIONIST and added a new requirement.

I don't understand this 'moving the goal post' statement. I have been referring to the line with the through holes since very early on, in this thread.
 
I don't believe in aliens, and never said anything about lasers...

No, but you believe in an advanced civilization of super-humans who invented post-industrial technology in ancient times, but left no evidence -- of their existence or their technologies -- after they perfected space travel and left the earth.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that "space aliens" is actually the more plausible belief system of the two.
 
No, but you believe in an advanced civilization of super-humans who invented post-industrial technology in ancient times, but left no evidence -- of their existence or their technologies -- after they perfected space travel and left the earth.

...

That's close...

I believe that 'We' are not the first Earthlings to ascend into the heavens, and 'some' of our most ancient ruins MIGHT be by their hands.

'We' only just got into space a half a century ago, yet we have existed in this modern form for tens of thousands of years.

I think it is much more likely that we aren't the first to figure out flight, than we are being visited by inter-stellar tourists.
 
The problem is that you don't have any evidence for that claim that doesn't depend on cherry-picking, confirmation bias and pure, imaginative invention.
 
The problem is that you don't have any evidence for that claim that doesn't depend on cherry-picking, confirmation bias and pure, imaginative invention.

And this is where the old "Willful Ignorance Fallacy" kicks in...because you'd have to dismiss each and every historical account of 'them'...

Having seen 'them' for myself, I don't have the luxury is your level of ignorance.
 
And this is where the old "Willful Ignorance Fallacy" kicks in...because you'd have to dismiss each and every historical account of 'them'...

Having seen 'them' for myself, I don't have the luxury is your level of ignorance.

Please provide evidence that what you (claim you) saw, and what you imagine them to be, are one and the same.
 
KotA said:
And this is where the old "Willful Ignorance Fallacy" kicks in...because you'd have to dismiss each and every historical account of 'them'...
I do. For the same reason I dismiss the accounts of Winnie the Pooh, and the existence of Allen Grant of Jurassic Park, and Michael Weston. They're fiction.

Unless you have some physical evidence..........? After all, you demand that we satisfy your irrational demands in terms of experimental evidence--why do you get a pass? Why do you get to make bold assertions without so much as a scrap of possitive evidence? (By this I mean, all of the evidence you have--your ENTIRE argument--consists of poking holes in the standard archeological models. This is why you're being compared to Creationists: your arguments are exactly alike.)

Having seen 'them' for myself, I don't have the luxury is your level of ignorance.
So you only have the luxury of complete ignorance in terms of what we know about how things were built back then--ie, the luxury of refusing to read anything that may potentially disagree with you. Sorry, but that makes you a fringie.

I don't understand this 'moving the goal post' statement. I have been referring to the line with the through holes since very early on, in this thread.
You insisted that these stones couldn't be carved via human tools of the time. When it was demonstrated that you could you rejected it as "found techniques", whatever that means. Then you insisted that saws couldn't be used to carve one stone. This is a serious movement of the goalpost, because you went from "period tools" to one specific tool. It's also a starwman, as none of us said that it necessarily had to be a saw that did it (given that all we have is a photograph I'm not entirely convinced that it's from the proper time period; it probably is, but the possibility of this stone being altered later on is real, and without any evidence other than a picture I can't say one way or another).

You also waxed somewhat poetic about the possibility of the researcher being dead, which frankly disturbs me.
 
That's close...

I believe that 'We' are not the first Earthlings to ascend into the heavens, and 'some' of our most ancient ruins MIGHT be by their hands.

'We' only just got into space a half a century ago, yet we have existed in this modern form for tens of thousands of years.

I think it is much more likely that we aren't the first to figure out flight, than we are being visited by inter-stellar tourists.


Given the absolute 100% and unequivocal lack of evidence to support that conjecture, it's reasonable to say it is simply a fantasy.
 
When someone replicates the work with period tools THIS will prove, this is how it could have been done. Until then, we DON'T know how it was done, period.

Except that your conclusion is incorrect. We can look at the evidence available and come up with plausible ways that they could have made the stones at PP. You've come across them in this thread already, and they are far more plausible then what you have said.

The technology that did the work at PP is "lost", right now.

Vortigern99 provided a source in post #603 that suggests how Machu Pichu was built. The evidence so far suggests that similar techniques were used to build Puma Punku.

What you are suggesting makes less sense then the above. Your beliefs either rely on dating techniques being wrong, or that around 500 AD (or CE) when documentary evidence has things like the Heptarchy in Great Britain, or the founding of Uxmal in Central America, we had the ability to go to space. And then by 1400 we've somehow forgotten it and we're building buildings using rudimentary tools and all the evidence of this wondrous technology has gone missing.

I don't know where else to turn to, in order to test this myth.

If they do test this what will you do if they find it to be confirmed or plausible?

There is nothing for me to be 'right' about... I am arguing that there is NO EVIDENCE that these stones were carved with traditional/known techniques using known period tools. I am not the one claiming I KNOW how these works were created, so the burden isn't or shouldn't be on me to prove anything.

Except you are claiming to know that around that time we somehow had the ability to go into space. And that traditional/known techniques were not good enough.

You are claiming to know how these works were created since "not by traditional/known techniques" is a claim. The burden is on you to show that this is indeed the case.
 
I do. For the same reason I dismiss the accounts of Winnie the Pooh, and the existence of Allen Grant of Jurassic Park, and Michael Weston. They're fiction.

Unless you have some physical evidence..........? After all, you demand that we satisfy your irrational demands in terms of experimental evidence--why do you get a pass? Why do you get to make bold assertions without so much as a scrap of possitive evidence? (By this I mean, all of the evidence you have--your ENTIRE argument--consists of poking holes in the standard archeological models. This is why you're being compared to Creationists: your arguments are exactly alike.)

So you only have the luxury of complete ignorance in terms of what we know about how things were built back then--ie, the luxury of refusing to read anything that may potentially disagree with you. Sorry, but that makes you a fringie.

You insisted that these stones couldn't be carved via human tools of the time. When it was demonstrated that you could you rejected it as "found techniques", whatever that means. Then you insisted that saws couldn't be used to carve one stone. This is a serious movement of the goalpost, because you went from "period tools" to one specific tool. It's also a starwman, as none of us said that it necessarily had to be a saw that did it (given that all we have is a photograph I'm not entirely convinced that it's from the proper time period; it probably is, but the possibility of this stone being altered later on is real, and without any evidence other than a picture I can't say one way or another).

You also waxed somewhat poetic about the possibility of the researcher being dead, which frankly disturbs me.

Stone can be cut by using fibre, water and sand.
It's not a saw in mechanical terms but it will do the same job.
 
And this is where the old "Willful Ignorance Fallacy" kicks in...because you'd have to dismiss each and every historical account of 'them'...

Having seen 'them' for myself, I don't have the luxury is your level of ignorance.

Old? You invented that asinine term and it only applies to you.
 
And this is where the old "Willful Ignorance Fallacy" kicks in...because you'd have to dismiss each and every historical account of 'them'...

Nope. As I said before, one just has to dismiss your (heavily biased and unsubstantiated) interpretations of a (biased, cherry-picked and heterogeneous) selection of ancient myths and some anecdotes, ancient and modern.

Whenever you fail to recognize this, you are deep in to the old "Wooful Ignorance Fallacy".

Having seen 'them' for myself, I don't have the luxury is your level of ignorance.

You actually don't have the luxury of pretending to know what you believe to know. Here's why: You are a guy who claims to have seen some weird lights in the sky. You are a guy who linked this claimed experience with some baseless Daniken-like wild especulations.

That's the actual truth, the bottomline. You are not special, you are not a "chosen", you are not "the timely truth", you are not a "modern day Picasso", you do not have some special knowledge or skills, you are just another normal, regular, standard human being who happens to hold to a false belief.
 
Here is a timeline of human migration for 150,000 years.

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

According to the source, man was already creating "spectacular works of art," like the Chauvet cave in France, more than 25,000 years ago. The Bradshaw paintings in Australia are from around 15,000 years ago.

Since there isn't evidence that people "ascended" - when and from where, who knows? - I remain unconvinced.
 

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