Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Clayton Moore]

Oh, good God.

Are you laboring under the impression that nobody knew Jews in Poland were being concentrated in camps or that Jews from around Europe were being sent to Poland?

EVERYONE WAS AWARE THAT JEWS WERE BEING DEPORTED!

Anyway, what happened to them once they got there was far less known. Which evokes the question of whether you even know what role Poland and Polish territory even played in the war.

"Nobody knew."

That was the 'party' line in the 50s and much of the 60s. Much of the German military was said to be in the dark about "IT."

Then in the 60s and pretty much until the present the line became that everyone knew and hated Jewish people so much they didn't care what happened.

 

[Clayton Moore]

You post inconsequential nonsense and you can't spell sole.

Way over your head. The spelling was correct for my intent.

 

[Walter Ego]

This kid is a 9/11 twoofer, so he thinks he's hipped himself into a big revelation, i.e., everything we think we know are actually lies. His teachers, such as they are, have been feeding him crap in bite-size pieces. Sooner or later, they'll get around to getting him to hate the Jews. Then and only then will he be a Hitler hugger.

It takes a little longer when they come to it from 9/11 Twoof.

That's an interesting idea. 9/11 truth as a gateway drug to Hitler hugging and Jew hatred. Truthers have certainly shown no reluctance in associating with Holocaust deniers.

I mean in the realms of JAQing off, if you're questioning the "official story" of 9/11, why not question the "official story" of the Holocaust, a story promulgated, after all, with museums and memorials and mandated classroom education by the same governments who are covering up the truth about 9/11?

But while 9/11 truth in most of its manifestations is merely wrongheaded and stupid, Holocaust denial is something else altogether. Charitably can we say that, being young and naïve, the masked man has no idea of the fetid swamp he's dipping his toes into?

 

[Wroclaw]

Wait a minute. Really?

You don't think anyone knew that Jews were being deported?

Here's an article from less than two months into the war:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA071EFE3E5A177A93C5AB178BD95F4D8385F9

I think you need to retract at this point, pal.

 

[Clayton Moore]

To add one more small example of how widely news of the murders dispersed: Victor Klemperer, restricted to a Jews House in Dresden and denied access to reading material and news reports, forced to wear a yellow star and segregated and isolated from society, managed to find out enough about the actions in Poland to confide to his diary in fall 1942 that he had heard that Auschwitz was "a swift-working slaughterhouse."

What does that even mean?

That Jewish people in Germany knew millions were being killed in Poland and wrote it in their diary but didn't tell anyone/other Jewish people?

That Jewish people in Germany knew millions were being killed in Poland and wrote it in their diary but even though they spread the word a million or more Jewish people decided to chance it?

 

[SanityGap]

Wait a minute. Really?

You don't think anyone knew that Jews were being deported?

Here's an article from less than two months into the war:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA071EFE3E5A177A93C5AB178BD95F4D8385F9

I think you need to retract at this point, pal.

You keep presenting facts and evidence. It's obvious his weapons of choice are wilful ignorance and a cocky rejoinder.

 

[Wroclaw]

That Jewish people in Germany knew millions were being killed in Poland and wrote it in their diary but even though they spread the word a million or more Jewish people decided to chance it?

How does: (1) being arrested and/or concentrated into a ghetto for being Jewish; (2) being deported for being Jewish; and then (3) ending up in a concentration camp for being Jewish constitute "chancing it"?

Are you daft?

 

[Uzzy]

"Nobody knew."

That was the 'party' line in the 50s and much of the 60s. Much of the German military was said to be in the dark about "IT."

Then in the 60s and pretty much until the present the line became that everyone knew and hated Jewish people so much they didn't care what happened.

There's a very good reason for that. Post war West Germany frankly didn't want to face up to the sins of the past, so it was much easier to pass the buck onto the commanders and higher ups, rather then look thoroughly at the level of support for the Nazi regime. Many people who had been members of the Nazi regime were still in German politics, such as Kurt Georg Kiesinger, the third Chancellor of the FRG. Former Nazis were needed in the German government, and Adenauer, the first Chancellor of the FRG, can be said to have come to an informal arrangement with former Nazis, where in exchange for support for the democratic regime, crimes committed by them wouldn't be investigated.

This continued for a while, and a delusion about the past became the done thing in Germany, which only changed during the student and youth unrest in the 1960's, where questions about the past were raised. Willy Brandt, the fourth Chancellor of the FRG, also aided in this new re-examining of the past.

The term for that, by the way, is Vergangenheitsbewältigung, or loosely, the struggle to come to terms with the past.

 

[Clayton Moore]

How does: (1) being arrested and/or concentrated into a ghetto for being Jewish; (2) being deported for being Jewish; and then (3) ending up in a concentration camp for being Jewish constitute "chancing it"?

Are you daft?

Are you? You don't arrest/deport/move over 3 million men, women and children and then kill them over a period of three years without the world media finding out and reporting it to high heaven.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I hope everyone knows that the original numbers of Jewish people killed in gas chambers and other ways was broken down by country the victims were from and "death" camp where they perished. The list was the absolute truth and totaled around the often used, before and after World War I, SIX MILLION.

When it was found out that there were no GAS CHAMBERS in Germany the SIX MILLION calculation had to be adjusted by moving all the no longer dead in made up German GAS CHAMBERS to be killed in Polish GAS Chambers. The Polish GAS Chambers were of course also made up but inaccessible because Russia ruled Poland.

 

[SanityGap]

Are you? You don't arrest/deport/move over 3 million men, women and children and then kill them over a period of three years without the world media finding out and reporting it to high heaven.

As has been explained to you (but you're not listening) it was reported in the NY Times, The daily Telegraph, on the BBC and it was discussed in Parliament in Dec 1942. There were many other reports from resistance groups, notably the Polish Resistance.
But you prefer Argument from Incredulity.

 

[SanityGap]

I hope everyone knows that the original numbers of Jewish people killed in gas chambers and other ways was broken down by country the victims were from and "death" camp where they perished. The list was the absolute truth and totaled around the often used, before and after World War I, SIX MILLION.

When it was found out that there were no GAS CHAMBERS in Germany the SIX MILLION calculation had to be adjusted by moving all the no longer dead in made up German GAS CHAMBERS to be killed in Polish GAS Chambers. The Polish GAS Chambers were of course also made up but inaccessible because Russia ruled Poland.

Between 1939 and 1945
Wow, have the history books (paper thing with pages and facts) got that wrong.

 

[Clayton Moore]

As has been explained to you (but you're not listening) it was reported in the NY Times, The daily Telegraph, on the BBC and it was discussed in Parliament in Dec 1942. There were many other reports from resistance groups, notably the Polish Resistance.
But you prefer Argument from Incredulity.

Discussing reports of atrocities and reporting them means they were considered alleged. ONE or TWO million are not alleged and for discussion. So obviously nobody was saying ONE or TWO MILLION Jewish men, women, and children had been killed.

 

[Clayton Moore]

the doors were opened and the corpses were removed by a group of Jewish workers

So now we're presented with the fact that Jewish ZOMBIE(my word) workers knew children were being killed and must have been too intimidated by the possibility of their own death to not go ballistic.

 

[carlitos]

With apologies for de-lurking here.

The list was the absolute truth and totaled around the often used, before and after World War I, SIX MILLION.

He has posted this at least twice, if not more. Does he really mean World War I? What "list" is he referring to?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Between 1939 and 1945
Wow, have the history books (paper thing with pages and facts) got that wrong.

You get an F.

When it was found out that there were no GAS CHAMBERS in Germany .............................The Polish GAS Chambers were of course also made up but inaccessible because Russia ruled Poland.

 

[Wroclaw]

Are you? You don't arrest/deport/move over 3 million men, women and children and then kill them over a period of three years without the world media finding out and reporting it to high heaven.

OK, see that sentence you wrote above? Take "and then kill them" out of the sentence, and you now have a sentence that is 100% true.

The arrests and deportations of Jews from all over Europe, amounting to, in fact, more than three million, was reported in all of the mass media. When I did my NYTimes search, I merely sent you the earliest article that came up. There were literally dozens of similar stories over a six-year period in the Times, not to mention hundreds of other newspapers, as well as the radio and MovieTone News.

But you are unwilling or unable to do any research, relying merely on the stupid things that idiots have told you or resting happily on your own ignorance.

Now, did the world find out about them being killed? Within a year, the news was out to at least some parties, notably the U.S. and U.K. governments via the Polish underground. You should read a book now and then — on this point, I'd suggest Peter Novick's The Holocaust in American Life to learn about the U.S. gov't reaction to knowledge about the Holocaust.

But claiming no one knew about deportations is just breathtakingly retarded. And denying that people knew within a year about the exterminations going on — if not sooner — is also pretty dumb.

 

[Wroclaw]

I hope everyone knows that the original numbers of Jewish people killed in gas chambers and other ways was broken down by country the victims were from and "death" camp where they perished. The list was the absolute truth and totaled around the often used, before and after World War I, SIX MILLION.

When it was found out that there were no GAS CHAMBERS in Germany the SIX MILLION calculation had to be adjusted by moving all the no longer dead in made up German GAS CHAMBERS to be killed in Polish GAS Chambers. The Polish GAS Chambers were of course also made up but inaccessible because Russia ruled Poland.

I will withdraw from my 401k and send to you in check form $10,000 if you can actually prove that. There are people here who know my real name; they will back me up on this.

 

[Wroclaw]

So now we're presented with the fact that Jewish ZOMBIE(my word) workers knew children were being killed and must have been too intimidated by the possibility of their own death to not go ballistic.

You ever had a gun to your head? If the answer to that is "no," then I'd be shutting the f*ck up about now if I were you.

 

[Wroclaw]

You get an F.

When it was found out that there were no GAS CHAMBERS in Germany .............................The Polish GAS Chambers were of course also made up but inaccessible because Russia ruled Poland.

So if I show you newspaper reports from 1942 indicating Jews from all over Europe being sent to a concentration camp in and around a Polish town called Oswieçim, then what would you say?

Do you know how to say that town's name in German?