Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[dafydd]

Quote:
Mainly because the Germans were fighting a war for their very survival and the manpower to control, maneuver millions of people into Poland and then kill most of them and dispose of their bodies was simply not available.




Numbers don't lie, people do.

The whole Nazi regime was built on lies. Goebbels,that fine specimen of Aryan manhood,made a whole career out of lying to Germans. As for the rest of your post,you appear to know nothing about WWII.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Be more specific. What specific resources would have been unavailable and what amount of resources do you think would have been necessary to gas three million Jews, most of whom were already in Poland to begin with?

Use your imagination. You know the one you use to babble to and fro about nothing.

I said

There are so many absurd killing methods the Germans are accused of.

Bottom line is the 'methods' are always some elaborate form of ritual murder. One was the use of gassing vans. The short of it was that the vans were dispatched to capture Jewish people. During the return trip the captives were gassed in the rear sealed off portion of the van. The bodies then had to be processed and then disposed of.

That is the type of nonsense that is used to support the 6 million total.

Sooner or later in every Holocaust discussion the believers have PROOF that every European country, religion, and organization and the USA were guilty of some sort of wrongdoing against Jews. The drift of believer posts is like salvos of shotgun pellets.

 

[Wroclaw]

Use your imagination. You know the one you use to babble to and fro about nothing.

You seem to not want to answer direct questions. You come in here without any specific knowledge for what reason? You want to debate? That requires two points of view — not a point of view vs. a contrarian with no ideas.

Sooner or later in every Holocaust discussion the believers have PROOF that every European country, religion, and organization and the USA were guilty of some sort of wrongdoing against Jews. The drift of believer posts is like salvos of shotgun pellets.

That's a nice little straw man, but it won't fly here.

 

[Wroclaw]

Furthermore, I would add that the vast majority of Jews killing during the war died from one of three methods: starvation, shooting, and gas chambers.

Gas chambers account for around half of all Jewish deaths, and shooting and starvation the rest, with very, very few exceptions. Gas vans are important because they were a step toward something much more widely used. That's all.

 

[Walter Ego]

Truther Tony Lawson Comes Out As Holocaust Denier

Posted over on the 9/11 forum here but relevant on this thread.

9/11 truther Anthony "Tony" Lawson has posted a video of a speech he gave entitled Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?

Another 9/11 truther comes out of the closet as a Jew hater? No surprise there. I love the sympathy extended to mass murder Rudolf Höss in the video description.

Having been tortured, Rudolf Höss, who was the commander of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943, almost certainly lied to save the lives of his wife and children. Even if torture and duress cannot not be proven, the overwhelming reason for recognizing the utter falsity of the Höss confession is that the gassing method he described was not scientifically plausible.

And then there's this roll call of Holocaust denying "martyrs."

With great respect for those who have tried—though harassed, punished, fined, imprisoned and otherwise abused—to tell it like it really was: Arthur R. Butz, Robert Faurisson, Paul Grubach, Gerd Honsik, David Irving, Kevin Käther, Nicholas Kollerstrom, Fred Leuchter, Horst Mahler, Ingrid Rimland, Germar Rudolf, Bradley Smith, Sylvia Stolz, Fredrick Töbin, Ernst Zündel and many others.

That's quite a list there from outright Nazis like Zündel, useful idots like Leuchter, the thoroughly discredited "historian" David Irving along with the usual Hitler hugging Jew hating "revisionists"

So to sum up can we say Lawson has revealed himself to be an lying, anti-semitic scumbag who need never again be taken seriously on any subject?

Believe it or not this tripe is being supported by Gilad Atzmon, the Israelite-born British musician and political activist. Which means that as a Jew Atzmon is to jazz what the late Bobby Fischer was to chess. (Bobby, though, to give him his due, was a better chess player than Atzmon is a musician.)

 

[Clayton Moore]

Posted over on the 9/11 forum here but relevant on this thread.

9/11 truther Anthony "Tony" Lawson has posted a video of a speech he gave entitled Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid?

Another 9/11 truther comes out of the closet as a Jew hater? No surprise there. I love the sympathy extended to mass murder Rudolf Höss in the video description.



And then there's this roll call of Holocaust denying "martyrs."



That's quite a list there from outright Nazis like Zündel, useful idots like Leuchter, the thoroughly discredited "historian" David Irving along with the usual Hitler hugging Jew hating "revisionists"

So to sum up can we say Lawson has revealed himself to be an lying, anti-semitic scumbag who need never again be taken seriously on any subject?

Believe it or not this tripe is being supported by Gilad Atzmon, the Israelite-born British musician and political activist. Which means that as a Jew Atzmon is to jazz what the late Bobby Fischer was to chess. (Bobby, though, to give him his due, was a better chess player than Atzmon is a musician.)

Boo hoo everybody hates me.

 

[dafydd]

Boo hoo everybody hates me.

Nah,I feel sorry for you. It must be awful to live in a denier's head.

 

[dafydd]

Use your imagination. You know the one you use to babble to and fro about nothing.

I said



Sooner or later in every Holocaust discussion the believers have PROOF that every European country, religion, and organization and the USA were guilty of some sort of wrongdoing against Jews. The drift of believer posts is like salvos of shotgun pellets.

There must be a shortage of straw in your area now.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Furthermore, I would add that the vast majority of Jews killing during the war died from one of three methods: starvation, shooting, and gas chambers.

Gas chambers account for around half of all Jewish deaths, and shooting and starvation the rest, with very, very few exceptions. Gas vans are important because they were a step toward something much more widely used. That's all.

That would be 3 million in 3 years.

Nazi Germany
See also: Extermination camp
Interior of Majdanek gas chamber, showing Prussian blue residue

Gas chambers were used in the Third Reich as part of the "public euthanasia program" aimed at eliminating physically and intellectually disabled people and political undesirables in the 1930s and 1940s. At that time, the preferred gas was carbon monoxide, often provided by the exhaust gas of cars, trucks or army tanks.[11]

During the Holocaust, gas chambers were designed to accept large groups as part of the Nazi policy of genocide against the Jews. Nazis also targeted the Romani people, homosexuals, physically and mentally disabled, intellectuals and the clergy. In early 1940, the use of hydrogen cyanide produced as Zyklon B was tested on 250 Roma children from Brno at the Buchenwald concentration camp.[12] According to Nizkor Project (Hebrew: נִזְכּוֹר‎), on September 3, 1941, 600 Soviet POWs were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz.[13] According to a website run by Jürgen Langowski, an anti-Nazi German activist, Carbon monoxide was also used in large purpose-built gas chambers, like chambers in Treblinka extermination camp. The gas was in exhaust gas from internal combustion engines (detailed in the Gerstein Report).[14]
Gas chamber at the Stutthof concentration camp.

Gas chambers in vans, concentration camps, and extermination camps were used to kill several million people between 1941 and 1945. Some stationary gas chambers could kill 2,000 people at once.[15] The use of gas chambers during the Holocaust was attested to by several sources including the Vrba-Wetzler report and testimony from Rudolf Höss, Commandant of the Auschwitz concentration camp, and other German soldiers.[16][17][18]

The gas chambers were dismantled or destroyed[citation needed] when Soviet troops got close, except at Dachau, Sachsenhausen, and Majdanek. The gas chamber at Auschwitz I was reconstructed after the war as a memorial, but without a door in its doorway and without the wall that originally separated the gas chamber from a washroom. The door that had been added when the gas chamber was converted into an air raid shelter was left intact.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber

That's it? All the information about a method of killing that is said to have been used to kill 3 million Jewish people?

That means that all the mountains of information on gassings is just so much crap. Putting it on Wikipedia would expose it for the lies and hate it represents.

 

[Wroclaw]

Well, there are a few books on the topic (sort of a long, papery tweet), most importantly, probably Massentötungen durch Giftgas in nationalsozialistischen Konzentrations- und Vernichtungslagern, although I don't think you're up to that quite yet. You should start with Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. It's available online for free.

Tolle lege! as someone famously said...

 

[MG1962]

Use your imagination. You know the one you use to babble to and fro about nothing.

I said

So in other words you actually dont have a clue. You have no idea what resources should have been used. So how can you say with any certainty other than your own opinion that the current narrative of the holocaust is wrong.

Sooner or later in every Holocaust discussion the believers have PROOF that every European country, religion, and organization and the USA were guilty of some sort of wrongdoing against Jews. The drift of believer posts is like salvos of shotgun pellets.

So the sum total of your argument is "Because others had done wrong by the Jews that makes it okay to attempt to systematically kill them" Good luck with that train of thought.

 

[Wroclaw]

Oh, one more thing: You seem to find it incredible that the Nazis could kill three million Jews in three years, or roughly 3,000 a day.

In Rwanda in '94 (I know, before you were born), they made the Nazis look like pikers. Eight thousand dead per day. So why couldn't the Nazis have done a fraction of that with a much more efficient method? (In Rwanda, some military weapons were used, but much if not most of the killing was done with machetes and clubs.)

 

[MG1962]

That would be 3 million in 3 years.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber

That's it? All the information about a method of killing that is said to have been used to kill 3 million Jewish people?

That means that all the mountains of information on gassings is just so much crap. Putting it on Wikipedia would expose it for the lies and hate it represents.

And the very next entry on a google search is

http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_auschwitz.html

Complete with bluepirnts. So why didn't you see it in your exhaustive search for information

 

[MG1962]

Oh, one more thing: You seem to find it incredible that the Nazis could kill three million Jews in three years, or roughly 3,000 a day.

In Rwanda in '94 (I know, before you were born), they made the Nazis look like pikers. Eight thousand dead per day. So why couldn't the Nazis have done a fraction of that with a much more efficient method? (In Rwanda, some military weapons were used, but much if not most of the killing was done with machetes and clubs.)

Well Pol Pot killed nearly 2000 a day for 4 years - And they were not allowed to use anything other than farm impliments. He also managed at the end of 4 years to have another 2.5 million close to starvation. So in 4 years he'd managed to impact over 60% of his countries total population

 

[Wroclaw]

Too true (regarding Cambodia). Certainly technology is hardly needed to kill millions. Kublai Khan managed what some consider to be the greatest genocide in history (the top five surname holders among the Han Chinese) in the 14th century, before gun powder or poison gas.

 

[Wroclaw]

And Stalin killed his millions in Ukraine using only starvation as his weapon.

Boy, his argument just falls apart more and more the more you examine it...

 

[LemmyCaution]

You absurdly insist the Germans implemented, with nary a hint of suspicion or alarm and outcry, the movement, murder and physical disposal of over 10,000 Jewish people a week.

Thereby demanding that millions of the Jewish people, regarded as the most intelligent, most educated of the time and to this very day, succumbed to this without catching on to what was to be their fate?

Your Holocaust demands and celebrates that those Jewish people were mindless idiots. Well I know they were not.

The ignorance is astonishing. So many examples of outcry, alarm, and suspicion. Let's pass over Abba Kovner's "Ponar means death" and simply mention this one, a note in his diary written by Abraham Lewin, trapped in Warsaw ghetto, May 1942, reflecting on the slaughter of Jews which had begun the previous year (p 73): "After the outbreak of the war between Germany and the Soviet Union, since the tidings of Job have begun to reach us, of mass‐murders and the extermination of entire historic and illustrious Jewish communities such as Wilno, the Jerusalem of Lithuania, Kowno, Slonim, Lwow, Lublin, and dozens of others—who can begin to comprehend it all?" And, of course, when the emptying to Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka began, the chairman of the Warsaw Judenrat Adam Czerniakow made this last entry in his diary before taking his own life: "It is 3 o’clock. So far 4,000 are ready to go." After which another Warsaw diarist, Chaim Kaplan, a few days later described Czerniakow as the “first victim of the deportation decree” and wrote, “He perpetuated his name by his death more than by his life.” (p 384)

 

[dafydd]

That would be 3 million in 3 years.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber

That's it? All the information about a method of killing that is said to have been used to kill 3 million Jewish people?

That means that all the mountains of information on gassings is just so much crap. Putting it on Wikipedia would expose it for the lies and hate it represents.

It is pointless discussing anything with somebody of your limited knowledge. Why are you a Hitler Hugger?

 

[dafydd]

And Stalin killed his millions in Ukraine using only starvation as his weapon.

Boy, his argument just falls apart more and more the more you examine it...

Do deniers ever think before they speak?

 

[Wroclaw]

It is pointless discussing anything with somebody of your limited knowledge. Why are you a Hitler Hugger?

I honestly don't think that's it. This kid is a 9/11 twoofer, so he thinks he's hipped himself into a big revelation, i.e., everything we think we know are actually lies. His teachers, such as they are, have been feeding him crap in bite-size pieces. Sooner or later, they'll get around to getting him to hate the Jews. Then and only then will he be a Hitler hugger.

It takes a little longer when they come to it from 9/11 Twoof.