Teen Parents/ Parenting

[Piscivore]

Also, who cares about a 3 year differnce? Does a 40 year old date a 18 year old? yes. Though some arguments arise from that, normally nothing happens to them. Im not saying an 18 year old should date a 8 year old, or a 20 year old date a 14 year old. There are limits, and I believe within the 3 year range is perfectly fine.

It's not the "range" that's the problem- it's where the bottom limit falls.

 

[SteveHamilton]

That's the false dichotomy. Those are not the only two possible states, they are simply two different ways to fail on opposite sides of a continuum. My children were frequently praised by strangers for their politeness, good behaviour, and social grace and "hitting" was not part of our disciplinary measures.

That you cannot think of anything but "hitting" and "chaos" is a failure of your own imagination, not an objective fact about parenting.


What year do you think this is?

Believe it or not nature is in chaos, it likes to be chaotic, Im not saying to go and hit your child for any reason you see fit, but there are limits. Do we not punish those that commit crimes with jail? What do you think happens to them in there? I agree though, you can make non violent punishments as you stated before, but the examples ive stated before definately call for some type of disipline vs. "What did you do wrong today honey? What could you have done instead? Alright go to bed now."
Im not attacking your way, but think about it this way. If a stranger says you cant eat at a certain place in your house, is he right? Thats taking your rights away. Same with how you believe you should raise your child, GRANTED there are limits.

 

[SteveHamilton]

It's not the "range" that's the problem- it's where the bottom limit falls

What exactly do you mean?

 

[Emet]

Believe it or not nature is in chaos, it likes to be chaotic, Im not saying to go and hit your child for any reason you see fit, but there are limits. Do we not punish those that commit crimes with jail? What do you think happens to them in there? I agree though, you can make non violent punishments as you stated before, but the examples ive stated before definately call for some type of disipline vs. "What did you do wrong today honey? What could you have done instead? Alright go to bed now."
Im not attacking your way, but think about it this way. If a stranger says you cant eat at a certain place in your house, is he right? Thats taking your rights away. Same with how you believe you should raise your child, GRANTED there are limits.

Believe it or not, we're talking about child rearing.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Also, who cares about a 3 year differnce? Does a 40 year old date a 18 year old? yes. Though some arguments arise from that, normally nothing happens to them. Im not saying an 18 year old should date a 8 year old, or a 20 year old date a 14 year old. There are limits, and I believe within the 3 year range is perfectly fine.

I don't care at all. I'm just aware that some states do not have a "Romeo and Juliet" provision to age-of-consent laws. I know a guy who is a convicted registered sex offender for life because he was 18 and she was 17, and in Virginia that counts as an adult taking advantage of a minor.

 

[Toke]

I think it was in "Freakeconomics" there were a Finish study of church books over the last few centuries. It appeared that the couples that were most successful at breeding and bringing their kids to adulthood had an age of 15F and 35M.

The girl would be young and fertile, the man would have had time to get a nice size reindeer herd to support a family.

I just kind of hope that we have progressed part the point where breeding efficiency is important. Around here we should hopefully be able to focus on quality instead of quantity.

 

[SteveHamilton]

What do you think your #1 responsibility

It would be the success of my childs future, I believe that you are partially right, but not fully. Like I have stated, its up to the parent on how they raise their children, and when there is actual abuse, and not displine, then someone needs to step in. When a line is crossed thats when you should intervine. Telling others how to raise their children is like me telling you that you need to feed them more, give them more baths/showers, take them to the park more because they are inside too much, etc etc. Not saying that yours are like that, or that you are not.

 

[SteveHamilton]

Believe it or not, we're talking about child rearing.

Ill tell you from experience, I laughed when my parents put me in "Time-out" that method does not work. Ignoring me made me want to make more noise and break more things. etc etc. That type of punishment doesnt always work.

 

[SteveHamilton]

I don't care at all. I'm just aware that some states do not have a "Romeo and Juliet" provision to age-of-consent laws. I know a guy who is a convicted registered sex offender for life because he was 18 and she was 17, and in Virginia that counts as an adult taking advantage of a minor.

Exactly my point in the gov't/ state in making bogus laws.

 

[Piscivore]

Believe it or not nature is in chaos, it likes to be chaotic,

nature doesn't "like" anything, it is not an entity and is not sentient.

Im not saying to go and hit your child for any reason you see fit,

Aren't you? You don't want other people telling you what to do in your "own house".

but there are limits.

Yes, there are. One of them is "hitting kids is abuse".

Do we not punish those that commit crimes with jail?

Yes. Instead of flogging. Look it up.

What do you think happens to them in there?

"What happens in there" is largely the result of how the prisoners choose to treat each other, despite the best efforts of the guards and the prison system as a whole, being limited as they are by finite budgets and manpower.

Interesting that you should bring this up, as child abuse is a recognised contributing factor in who ends up incarcreated and "what happens in there".

I agree though, you can make non violent punishments as you stated before, but the examples ive stated before definately call for some type of disipline vs. "What did you do wrong today honey? What could you have done instead? Alright go to bed now."

Not even close to what I was talking about. More like "What the HELL do you think you are doing? What made you think that kind of behaviour is acceptable? Now go put everything back where you found it and apologise to these nice people for acting like an animal!" Then, when we get back to the car/house/wherever make them repeat the rules three times so it sticks.

I fear for your child.

Im not attacking your way, but think about it this way. If a stranger says you cant eat at a certain place in your house, is he right? Thats taking your rights away. Same with how you believe you should raise your child.

Another shinig example of teenaged immaturity. Welcome to society, you're not the only one here.

GRANTED there are limits.

Yes, and one of the really important ones is "hitting kids is abuse".

 

[SteveHamilton]

I think it was in "Freakeconomics" there were a Finish study of church books over the last few centuries. It appeared that the couples that were most successful at breeding and bringing their kids to adulthood had an age of 15F and 35M.The girl would be young and fertile, the man would have had time to get a nice size reindeer herd to support a family.

I just kind of hope that we have progressed part the point where breeding efficiency is important. Around here we should hopefully be able to focus on quality instead of quantity.

That I see wrong, not because the girl would be a teen mom, but because of that huge age difference, seeing she is a minor. if the guy was 18-19, I see no problem. Though waiting until your 35 is a suggested idea, due to you are more financially stable.

 

[Emet]

Ill tell you from experience, I laughed when my parents put me in "Time-out" that method does not work. Ignoring me made me want to make more noise and break more things. etc etc. That type of punishment doesnt always work.

Your experience as a child rearer? Or perhaps your parent's abilities/disabilities as child rearers?

A Word About Spanking
Perhaps no form of discipline is more controversial than spanking. Here are some reasons why the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) discourages spanking:

Spanking teaches kids that it's OK to hit when they're angry.
Spanking can physically harm children.
Rather than teaching kids how to change their behavior, spanking makes them fearful of their parents and merely teaches them to avoid getting caught.
For kids seeking attention by acting out, spanking may inadvertently "reward" them — negative attention is better than no attention at all.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html#

AAP: Guidance for Effective Discipline

 

[Mark6]

Sometimes I think the "location" under my name doesnt help people figure where im at =p. Search "Fort Drum" in google. FYI for the rest reading this, I was 17 when she got prego =p. She turns 16 very soon, I just turned 18.

Fort Drum, NY?

 

[SteveHamilton]

nature doesn't "like" anything, it is not an entity and is not sentient.


Aren't you? You don't want other people telling you what to do in your "own house".


Yes, there are. One of them is "hitting kids is abuse".


Yes. Instead of flogging. Look it up.


"What happens in there" is largely the result of how the prisoners choose to treat each other, despite the best efforts of the guards and the prison system as a whole, being limited as they are by finite budgets and manpower.

Interesting that you should bring this up, as child abuse is a recognised contributing factor in who ends up incarcreated and "what happens in there".


Not even close to what I was talking about. More like "What the HELL do you think you are doing? What made you think that kind of behaviour is acceptable? Now go put everything back where you found it and apologise to these nice people for acting like an animal!" Then, when we get back to the car/house/wherever make them repeat the rules three times so it sticks.

I fear for your child.


Another shinig example of teenaged immaturity. Welcome to society, you're not the only one here.


Yes, and one of the really important ones is "hitting kids is abuse".

Society in general is messed up, hitting your kids is not abuse, im pretty sure we have gotten this far in our country, and only recently have these child abuse laws come up. I do not agree with senceless violence, I do not agree with rape, but I agree there should be more disipline for kids.

If youve realised there is no "perfect parenting" and it should be up to me on how I would raise my child. Not any other person, to the extents of the childs welfare being endangered, and by that i mean their life is in danger, or they are in direct path of being messed up for life. Here let me ask you, how do you interperate me hitting my child?

 

[Piscivore]

It would be the success of my childs future,

Nope, that's going to be up to them, not you. But don't feel bad, it's a common mistake in this country.

Your number one responsibility is turning the slimy, slobbering, poopy, pile of noise you are issued into a healty, functioning adult, and you only get 18 years to do it in- and you don't have the first goddamn clue how short that really is.

I believe that you are partially right, but not fully.

And I believe that I've raised kids for nearly as long as you've been alive. I've got real-world, first hand experience and all you've got is a belly full of self-righteous indignation and a lack of imagination.

Like I have stated, its up to the parent on how they raise their children, and when there is actual abuse, and not displine, then someone needs to step in. When a line is crossed thats when you should intervine.

And that line is hitting the kid. It is "up to the driver" how fast they go and how often they change lanes, but when they start endangering others society gets to step in. Boo-***********-hoo. I'm so sorry that mean old society won't let you "be yourself".

Telling others how to raise their children is like me telling you that you need to feed them more, give them more baths/showers, take them to the park more because they are inside too much, etc etc.

Yeah, well, if your kids are running around underfed, unwashed, and never let outside you're going to hear from the authorities also. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Not saying that yours are like that, or that you are not.

My kids are 17 and 15 and all kind of more mature than you are evidencing here.

 

[Piscivore]

Ill tell you from experience, I laughed when my parents put me in "Time-out" that method does not work. Ignoring me made me want to make more noise and break more things. etc etc. That type of punishment doesnt always work.

I never used "time out" either. All it does is let the kid stew in anger and cook up all kinds of justifications for his bad behaviour. They need to understand not just that a behaviour is "bad", but why. The "why" is by far the most important thing.

 

[SteveHamilton]

Spanking teaches kids that it's OK to hit when they're angry.Spanking can physically harm children.
Rather than teaching kids how to change their behavior, spanking makes them fearful of their parents and merely teaches them to avoid getting caught.
For kids seeking attention by acting out, spanking may inadvertently "reward" them — negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Not true, every form of disipline ive recieved has been from spanking, and I am not violent at all. I believe I should disipline my child the same way.
For the "teaching them their behavior" my Father very throughly explained to me why my behavior was wrong, then spanked me.
For the attention, Ive gotten alot of attention, there hasnt been a point where either of my parents hasnt been there for me. So that logic is thrown out.

 

[SteveHamilton]

Fort Drum, NY?

Yes, I wished alot of people like you used the goddess of information, The Internet.

 

[Piscivore]

Society in general is messed up,

Evidence?

hitting your kids is not abuse,

I'm sorry, but the society you are a part of says it is. So does research.

im pretty sure we have gotten this far in our country, and only recently have these child abuse laws come up.

Acutally, they started in the Victorian era, more'n a hundred years ago. Learn the facts before you start pontificating.

I do not agree with senceless violence, I do not agree with rape, but I agree there should be more disipline for kids.

Total non-sequitor. "Discipline" =/= "hitting"

If youve realised there is no "perfect parenting" and it should be up to me on how I would raise my child.

That's the "perfect solution" fallacy. An alternative parenting style to hitting kids does not have to be 'perfect' for hitting kids to be detrimental.

Not any other person, to the extents of the childs welfare being endangered, and by that i mean their life is in danger, or they are in direct path of being messed up for life.

Which studies have shown is statistically in the cards for kids that get hit. Look at your own example- you say you got hit as a child... did that adequately prepare you to understand the consequences of having unprotected sex with a minor?

Here let me ask you, how do you interperate me hitting my child?

I said already- as a lack of imagination, education, and/or emotional maturity and a failure of parenting.

How old is your child? have you hit it already?

 

[Piscivore]

Not true, every form of disipline ive recieved has been from spanking, and I am not violent at all.

That's pretty funny considering how hard you're arguing for the "right" to hit your own kid.