Merged Molten metal observations

NoahFence said:
uh...no.
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Uh yes. It's clear the fuselage would have quickly oxidized as it does in any other crash and would be very hard to melt.

Let us move along to a point I raised and everyone conveniently skipped. If the floors are sagging how come the metal (whatever it is) pools conveniently by the wall. It should pool at the center of the floor area.
 
NoahFence said:
Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface.
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I'm inclined to believe that carbon from the organic materials would obscure the metal not make it brighter.
 
Java Man said:
Uh yes. It's clear the fuselage would have quickly oxidized as it does in any other crash and would be very hard to melt.

Let us move along to a point I raised and everyone conveniently skipped. If the floors are sagging how come the metal (whatever it is) pools conveniently by the wall. It should pool at the center of the floor area.
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The things that make you folks go "hmmmmmmmmm" will never cease to amaze me. Nobody knows what was going on in that corner. Nobody will ever know. So what?
 
Java Man said:
GlennB said:
The white-gray colour is caused by oxidation of the metal. It's a film of aluminium oxide.
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Exactly. AKA burning. You've made my point. Thank you.
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No. Aluminum oxidizes even at room temperature. Anyone who's worked with unanodized aluminum knows this, as it gets all over your hands. The aluminum that doesn't has been anodized. This is an electrochemical process that passivates and thickens the layer of aluminum oxide.

All that you can conclude from aluminum that has a layer of aluminum oxide on it is that it is aluminum.
 
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leftysergeant said:
No.
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Yes, and speaking of the devil you've been quiet lately. You raised a point about steel flowing from the core to the corner. Maybe you'd like to contribute to explain how metal would flow down a sagging floor and then back up again. In true defiance of gravity.
 
TjW said:
No. Aluminum oxidizes even at room temperature. Anyone who's worked with unanodized aluminum knows this, as it gets all over your hands. The aluminum that doesn't has been anodized. This is an electrochemical process that passivates and thickens the layer of aluminum oxide.

All that you can conclude from aluminum that has a layer of aluminum oxide on it is that it aluminum.

I
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Well Glenn B concludes the same after seeing the pictures. Which are after the fire. Thus what we see is oxidized aluminium.
 
twinstead said:
The things that make you folks go "hmmmmmmmmm" will never cease to amaze me. Nobody knows what was going on in that corner. Nobody will ever know. So what?
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leftysergeant seemed to know. He made a comment on how steel could not flow all over the place. Strangely aluminium could. Hehehe
 
Java Man said:
Uh yes. It's clear the fuselage would have quickly oxidized as it does in any other crash and would be very hard to melt.
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Having several times dumped as much as 1000 gallons of JP-4 around the same F-100 fuselage and set fire to it and allowed it to burn for a couple minutes before extinguishing it, I will assure you that this is balderdash.

In order to oxidize, aluminum has to be exposed to plentiful oxygen, no matter how hot it is.

Oxygen was in rather short supply where that substance was melted, so it could well be aluminum, perhaps with some surface oxidization at most.

Another thing to take into consideration is that there is bloody little chemically-pure aluminum in the world outside of a manufacturing facility of some sort. Aircraft are generally made with a substance called "Duralumin" or some such. It is an alloy of aluminum and copper. Does anyone have the data on the color of that alloy when molten?

Bear in mind, also, that there were other metals with rather low melting points present on the impacted floors. These could also have mixed with the aluminum. We know that there was a straggering amount of copper in that area because of the battery banks. Do not assume that it was a single element. There is no reason to think so.

We have, of course, still not ruled out the possibility of its being glass.

If the floors are sagging how come the metal (whatever it is) pools conveniently by the wall. It should pool at the center of the floor area.
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We do not know that they were sagging on that particular floor or in that corner. It is also possible that one or mor floors above it had already separated from the perimeter columns and dumped the material onto that floor.
 
leftysergeant said:
In order to oxidize, aluminum has to be exposed to plentiful oxygen, no matter how hot it is.

Oxygen was in rather short supply where that substance was melted, so it could well be aluminum, perhaps with some surface oxidization at most.
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Oh I see you're from the Smart Oxygen camp too. You know the one that searches for office material to burn with rather than aluminium. Thus we can have a oxygen rich environment for office material to heat up those beams to temperatures that were never found in the sampled pieces. Yet not enough oxygen to oxidize aluminium.

So now we have Smart Oxygen, the NIST Technique and Gravitronic Aluminium which climbs up sagging floors.

Oh wait I get it. It's all a big conspiracy by Skynet.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/03/08/1226017/742088-t1000.jpg

And the airplanes were actually modified T-1000s
 
leftysergeant said:
We do not know that they were sagging on that particular floor or in that corner. It is also possible that one or mor floors above it had already separated from the perimeter columns and dumped the material onto that floor.
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Yes that's a possibility. Have you discussed it with Pithagoras? If so, what did he say?
 
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