Merged Molten metal observations

Java Man said:
No I haven't. Have you seem me post photos of me trying to melt steel with a butane lighter? Nope. Have you even seen the word steel or iron in the posts that include photos of my butane lighter? Nope.

Are you trying to divert the discussion to something that isn't being put forward? Yes. Are you trying to disprove said something which is obviously so clearly wrong and makes you so clearly right? Yes. Are you then trying to overlap your clearly correct comment regarding the failure to melt steel with a butane lighter with the conversation regarding aluminum foil and copper? Yes. Are you overall trying to score a victory by disproving something that's not even on the table and was brought by you in the attempt to score for the debunker team? Yes.

After this brief intermission back to the aluminium discussion.
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No, I'm trying to get you to think. I'm trying to get you to think why you can't melt your aluminium foil with a lighter. Al foil will reflect 98% of radiant heat and light.

You really need to go back to school and learn what heat actually is and how it relates to temperature.

Exactly what are your qualifications? What subjects have you passed and at what level? I ask this because it looks like you have a very poor understanding of the subject so explaining these things to you has to be done on a level you can understand. Otherwise the conversation is utterly pointless.
 
triforcharity said:
It's also a very low grade aluminum that is stretched very thin in comparison to the skin and structural members of an airplane.

Derpa derpa!!
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All you have to do is show us a picture of molten aluminum under a burnt aircraft and we'd be done with it. But as you see all the pictures I've shown have burnt aluminum rather than dripping aluminium. So your case is very hard to prove.
 
NoahFence said:
Ugh.

Why would you use aluminum foil to make your point, but say that the airplane is an aluminum alloy? Wouldn't it stand to reason that you'd have to use the same material to prove your point?

It. Was. Aluminum.
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Because he has no clue about surface area, convection, conduction, radiation (and it's reflection). Why do radiators for cooling things have such large surface areas? (rhetorical question but I'm trying to get him to think)
 
Java Man said:
So you're going to claim spontaneous transmutation now?
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No, what I really think happened was that the aircraft was subject to a failed wormhole experiment, removing 1/2 the fuselage - but not transporting the entire aircraft.

Here's an image of that same experiment 3 years later - when the technology was perfected:
Runway.jpg


Seriously - you're looking kind of silly. These photos show aircraft accidents after the fact. Not DURING the incident. One would hope it would be obvious that any melted aluminum that makes up the fuselage would have solidified by the time these photos were taken.

The images of the South tower, the dripping metal, are taken during the fire, while the aluminum is in a liquid state. If you were so bold as to run up to the building minutes after this stuff hit the ground, you would see it solidified.

I'm truly at a loss as to how you can't see this.
 
Java Man said:
Oh I see. So airplanes burning on the tarmac are doing so by magic tarmac fire and not "plane fire". LOL you truly are ridiculous. Look at the pictures and see how wrong you are. All those planes burned to ashes on the tarmac due to fire from their fuel and elements inside the fuselage and had nothing to do with office furniture.
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Not quite 'office furniture' here, merely burning wood from a forest fire. Melted the alloy wheels

meltedwheels-1.gif


p.s. I have no idea what point you're trying to make, but it's a terrible failure.

p.p.s at the King's Cross underground (subway) fire in London many aluminium ticket machines, entry gates etc melted in the fire from the wooden escalator.
 
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Java,

Please read this.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR92-04.pdf

Section 1.14

Then look at this photo, and tell me what you see below the tail fin in the picture.

Then go here and read about a plane crash that melted damn near the entire plane.

The go here and read about molten aluminum after a plane crash.

Now, either keep going with that ignorant line of bull *** you call an argument, and I can continue to point to more proof that you're full of ****, or admit that you were wrong, and move on.

Aluminum melts in airplane crashes. In fact, that is one reason why firefighters use a AFFF in an aircraft fire. Ever put a stream of water on a pool of molten metal of any kind?

It's not nice. Usually people get very seriously hurt, sometimes even die.
 
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Java Man said:
Yes I do:

[qimg]http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/8396/metald.png[/qimg]

Oh dear lord. Is this stuff also molten steel and therm*te?

By your definitions it has to be, and any denial is a coverup of gigantic proportions.

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Java Man said:
Yes that's my experiment. Then there's the real life photos of burnt aircraft with no molten aluminum under them so you can take a peek view to more "real life" scenarios.
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So your claim is that none of the metal in the aircraft would have melted? It all vapourized or turned to ash?

Please feel free to publish this in a professional journal.
:popcorn1
 
I was wrong.

1..2..3.......ok...9 letters, and one period.

Not that hard. Try it.

It was aluminum from the melted aircraft. What else could it have been?

... not a rhetorical question. I actually want you to answer it. What else could it have been?
 
Java Man said:
Yea I bet you would.

Now point us the dripping molten aluminum here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEWOSlqfFas&feature=related
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'1998, September 2. A Swissair MD-11 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, with the loss of all 229 onboard, after the pilots reported smoke in the cockpit. That investigation is ongoing and they now have evidence of a fire fore and aft of the cockpit bulkhead. Recovered parts, from the cockpit area, included a portion of the sheepskin cover from the F/O’s seat, an armrest, air filter, melted aluminum, electrical wires with melted copper, charred or missing wire insulation, and smaller parts that were discolored by heat. Those parts are undergoing analysis to determine the temperature levels and heated gases to which they were exposed, according to the TSB (Transportation Safety Board of Canada). That accident has prompted many questions received at this web site. See www.airlinesafety.com/faq/faq8.htm'
 
alienentity said:
So your claim is that none of the metal in the aircraft would have melted? It all vapourized or turned to ash?

Please feel free to publish this in a professional journal.
:popcorn1
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I'm not claiming all the metal went up in smoke. But clearly a great deal of the thin elements of the aircraft would burn up as we see in many of the pictures. The burn patterns end in irregular edges which look paper like and not molten. Sure other parts of the aircraft would melt. We have the example of the aluminum wheels.

More so. Even if all the aircraft did indeed melt you'd still have to prove show how it could stay in a vertical wall of molten aluminium as I've explained before.

So you have quite a bit going against you. Prove that all the aircraft's aluminum melted into large visible amounts that could be seen pouring. That it managed to flow across the floor without solidifying. That it pooled into a "vertical" crucible and then poured its content out.
 
triforcharity said:
Java,

Please read this.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR92-04.pdf

Section 1.14

Then look at this photo, and tell me what you see below the tail fin in the picture.

Then go here and read about a plane crash that melted damn near the entire plane.

The go here and read about molten aluminum after a plane crash.

Now, either keep going with that ignorant line of bull *** you call an argument, and I can continue to point to more proof that you're full of ****, or admit that you were wrong, and move on.

Aluminum melts in airplane crashes. In fact, that is one reason why firefighters use a AFFF in an aircraft fire. Ever put a stream of water on a pool of molten metal of any kind?

It's not nice. Usually people get very seriously hurt, sometimes even die.
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At last we seem to be getting somewhere. Unfortunately your fellow debunker has made the claim that the all mighty office furniture fire is needed to achieve all that you posted. Was there an office building conveniently positioned in the hill side?
 
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