Merged School Secretary Persecuted For Making Porn

[23_Tauri]

First, thank you for answering in an intelligent, adult way. Re your question, as I said above, yes, although I agree it's certainly not as significant/critical as if it was a teacher by any means. Still, to some extent or other, every member of the faculty is a role model to the kids. Again, trying to equate school faculty to any generic employee of any company is an absurd oversimplification.

Bigred, please explain what you mean by 'role model'. Why is being a porn star not an appropriate role model?

 

[23_Tauri]

It's not just religious many folk who not profess a faith also hold the idea that porn is "bad".

Good point, Darat. (*thinks*) Where to such puritanical mores come from when they haven't been instilled by a religion?

 

[JFrankA]

All human beings deserve the same rights.

In terms of employment, Ben. Stay with us.

He is: All human beings deserve the same rights, even when it comes to terms of employment.

Now tell me why you think a porn star doesn't have the right to work at a public school?

 

[JFrankA]

Good point, Darat. (*thinks*) Where to such puritanical mores come from when they haven't been instilled by a religion?

...their own inadequates and insecurities...perhaps....?

....I mean no offense to anyone. Just throwing that thought out there...

 

[Darat]

Good point, Darat. (*thinks*) Where to such puritanical mores come from when they haven't been instilled by a religion?

...their own inadequates and insecurities...perhaps....?

....I mean no offense to anyone. Just throwing that thought out there...

I think it's probably too complex to say there is a cause. Purely speculating I would suspect at the root of it will be human display and group behaviour; if you look around there are numerous examples of such behaviour that to us seem extreme, for example penis gourds and neck rings.

 

[JFrankA]

I think it's probably too complex to say there is a cause. Purely speculating I would suspect at the root of it will be human display and group behaviour; if you look around there are numerous examples of such behaviour that to us seem extreme, for example penis gourds and neck rings.

True.

However, what I find really amusing is that as of this posting, more people picked the Planet X option (23) than picked the fire her option (15)

 

[JFrankA]

A thought just occurred to me.

To the people who feel she should've been fired. If, instead of being in a porno, it was found out that she ran a swing club on the side, would you still feel she should have been fired? How about if she ran an adult web site? Why or why not?

(And to clear and above board here, I am not asking this sarcastically nor as a "gotcha". I am honestly curious.)

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Well, this is a real world example. What is wrong with acting in a porn movie? Why is that not a 'right way to behave'?

Do you think the school could take more steps in this case? I am thinking about e.g. setting up a moderated roundtable discussion between the school board, the secretary, the pupils and the parents, where all participants would make their arguments heard, kind of like an extra PTA meeting.

I am looking for specific arguments and strategies the school board could use and pursue in said discussion.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I was going to get round to your earlier iteration of this question, and in the meanwhile you repeated it.

By not sacking her. Isn't that obvious?

Yes, it is. Now let us go a step further.

Do you think the school could take more steps in this case? I am thinking about e.g. setting up a moderated roundtable discussion between the school board, the secretary, the pupils and the parents, where all participants would make their arguments heard, kind of like an extra PTA meeting.

I am looking for specific arguments and strategies which the school board could use and pursue in said discussion.

 

[23_Tauri]

Do you think the school could take more steps in this case? I am thinking about e.g. setting up a moderated roundtable discussion between the school board, the secretary, the pupils and the parents, where all participants would make their arguments heard, kind of like an extra PTA meeting.

I am looking for specific arguments and strategies the school board could use and pursue in said discussion.

Roundtable discussion? Did the boy's parents have an issue? I don't recall reading anywhere that they did.

My view is quite the opposite. The more the school does things like this, the more it becomes 'an issue', with more publicity, more moral hand-wringing, radio phone-ins for the puritanical to voice this disgust etc. Really, the school didn't need to do any more than have a quiet word with the woman in question along the lines of "this has come to light but there is nothing in your contract that says you can't do this in your spare time, but just keep your head down" and then left it at that.

Because, like, it's not an issue IMO....

 

[Rasmus]

He is: All human beings deserve the same rights, even when it comes to terms of employment.

Now tell me why you think a porn star doesn't have the right to work at a public school?

Nobody has a right to work at a public school. If such a right existed, unemployment would be down to nil, since whoever would be otherwise unemployed could make use of their right of working at a public school.

I don't think firing her was justified, unless her behavior was explicitly violating her terms of employment, but that is not because people have a right to a job at a school.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Roundtable discussion? Did the boy's parents have an issue? I don't recall reading anywhere that they did.

My view is quite the opposite. The more the school does things like this, the more it becomes 'an issue', with more publicity, more moral hand-wringing, on radio phone-ins etc. Really, the school didn't need to do any more than have a quiet word with the woman in question along the lines of "this has come to light but there is nothing in your contract that says you can't do this in your spare time, but just keep your head down" and then left it at that.

Because, like, it's not an issue IMO....

I thought you might say that. The roundtable discussion was meant as a scenario for you - as a member of the school board - to present your arguments for letting her keep her job and how to move on.

Could you try again, please?

 

[23_Tauri]

I thought you might say that.

In that case, why did you frame it in such a way?

I held back, I didn't even go as far as suggesting setting up a focus group and maybe setting an exam question on the subject for the kids at the end of term.

The roundtable discussion was meant as a scenario for you - as a member of the school board - to present your arguments for letting her keep her job and how to move on.Could you try again, please?

So why did you suggest others such as the woman and the boy's parents be on this discussion panel if it was purely a meeting for the school board? Presumably the school board did meet, and came to the conclusion that they came to. Maybe there were members who felt she didn't deserve a sacking but they were in a minority.

Dragging others into it only makes it a bigger issue. Then it becomes almost like a kangaroo court.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

In that case, why did you frame it in such a way?

I held back, I didn't even go as far as suggesting setting up a focus group and maybe setting an exam question on the subject for the kids at the end of term.


So why did you suggest others such as the woman and the boy's parents be on this discussion panel if it was purely a meeting for the school board? Presumably the school board did meet, and came to the conclusion that they came to. Maybe there were members who felt she didn't deserve a sacking but they were in a minority.

Dragging others into it only makes it a bigger issue. Then it becomes almost like a kangaroo court.

It seems to me you are avoiding to present a simple argument for your side. I suggested the above scenarios as a helpful tool to bed your arguments in. You do not need to adhere to any of the presented settings.

But allow me, in the spirit of simplifying things for you, another scenario:

I am a concerned parent of one pupil. Concerned as in: I see the school board's point in letting her keep the job, but I am worrying if it is in the best interest of the school and my kid.

Could you please present at least one argument to alleviate my concerns?

 

[jiggeryqua]

I am a concerned parent of one pupil. Concerned as in: I see the school board's point in letting her keep the job, but I am worrying if it is in the best interest of the school and my kid.

Could you please present at least one argument to alleviate my concerns?

"Ma'am, I appreciate your concerns. Here at School X we strive in every way to further the best interests of our students and, of course, the school. We want the very best for your child, as well as for our adult employees, who are very much a part of the vibrant school community.

But she did nothing illegal, and we don't believe it's in anyone's best interests for her to be sacked - least of all hers. We are not a church school, and while we might hope to inculcate good moral values we do not have a puritanical agenda.

Among the values we would like our students to learn and live by is 'live and let live'. We do not encourage the imposition of elective, judgemental standards on anyone, our students or our employeers. We certainly don't wish to be seen to reward the student whose own lapse of judgement became a tool with which he could exert power over our staff. We will not give him satisfaction in that regard, whatever his motivation.

Again, please understand that I do appreciate your concerns. It is natural and proper to want what you believe is right for your child. But we have very many parents here, and very many ideas of what is right, some of which inevitably conflict.

In summary, then: get over it, you puritanical prude, and stop trying to use your children as a tool for your own petty power games. You are free to remove him or her from the school. Now get out of my office before I puke."

 

[Rasmus]

Could you please present at least one argument to alleviate my concerns?

I can't, and I shouldn't have to.

You did not specify your concerns in any meaningful way. (I'd expect parents to do just that, mind you.)

I'd have to start out by asking what *precisely* you think the problem is and make it clearer to me than "D'uh, she was in a porn-film!!!!eleven!!?!" (Even though I would be denied the joy of actually phrasing it that way if I was on the board and you were a parent.)

In the meantime, I would let you know that

- the secretary has not broken any terms of her employment with the school and thus not presented a straight-forward reason for firing her. (If she indeed did do just that, the case would be much different.)

- the secretary has not done anything to any child. She did not make the video available to the pupils and did not make them consume pornography. The pupils did that all by themselves. (Surprise!) They will continue to do so, most likely, too.

- we employ her for her qualities as a secretary. Her work in the porn industry does not negatively affect those. (Insert jokes about envelope licking synergies *here*) If they did, we would look into her performance as a secretary and see if that performance was still adequate.

- there doesn't appear to be a negative impact on school life other than people claiming that there would be a negative impact on school life. That doesn't really impact us very much at all, so we are prepared to deal with it and not fire her.

 

[Taarkin]

I also find it shall we say curious that some people think if something's legal, it's "OK."

I agree, it is rather silly to support the firing merely because it is technically legal.

 

[Rasmus]

I agree, it is rather silly to support the firing merely because it is technically legal.

I think it raises a different question: If the laws say that I can fire an employee because I don't like his nose, then I should not be blamed for exercising my rights thusly. It's besides the point, to say the last. The laws that allow me to do that should be changed.

 

[Taarkin]

"Hey kids, remember that boring-ass book we made you read? The one about the pilgrims? No not the witch one, the other one. Yes, The Scarlet Letter. We are the villains from that book."

 

[JFrankA]

Nobody has a right to work at a public school. If such a right existed, unemployment would be down to nil, since whoever would be otherwise unemployed could make use of their right of working at a public school.

I don't think firing her was justified, unless her behavior was explicitly violating her terms of employment, but that is not because people have a right to a job at a school.

Good point. You are correct.

So perhaps I should re-phase: If a person chooses to enter the adult video profession, does that person lose their rights to work at places that children gather to learn?

Bare in mind I'm talking rights, not contracts that are in place.

Is that better?