The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[platonov]

This should be good

As I said, I don't recall if they had mentioned this earlier but if they had it was another failure on the part of Perugia's communications police to secure the evidence.

There is nothing about the cracked door that points a finger at Amanda and Raffaele. If they had remained silent it likely would have been undiscovered and if discovered it could have been interpreted as existing prior to the crime or resulting when Meredith tried to flee her attacker. In fact, how do we know that this is not the case and Raffaele only discovered the crack when he pushed on the door?

How do you so effortlessly turn an honest statement into a sign of guilt? That sort of process truly baffles me.

Mindboggling

Was AK lying about the aborted effort by RS to break down the door ?

If so, Why ? Does this also baffle you ?

 

[platonov]

Confusion improves ones nightsight

Why?

LJ was suggesting that the lamp may have been in Meredith's room for days, which is what prompted my comment.

How long do you suppose Knox might have gone without noticing that her lamp was missing if there was no other serviceable light source in her room beyond whatever daylight it managed to get?

For an indefinite period of time apparently, if we are to believe LJ's story, as AK never mentioned the prior absence of the lamp. Her confusion over many issues was compensated for by her ability to see in the dark

Otherwise why would she withhold this information when on the stand - unless she is in on the conspiracy (as Dan O seems to believe)

ETA Does this mean bungling Battistelli or one of his cohorts are off the hook - 'KD & LJ' [katy_did & London John] may have to revise their CT in light of this

 

[babycondor]

'KD & LJ' [katy_did & London John] may have to revise their CT in light of this

so to speak...

All this talk of building codes is laughable. This is cheap student housing in a neighborhood frequented by drug dealers and second-story men: lights hanging out of a hole in the ceiling, a front door that doesn't latch, shutters that won't close all the way, etc. etc. The slumlord landlord is raking it in while doing nothing to secure or maintain the building. It's a dump, folks.

 

[platonov]

An estate agent explains

so to speak...

All this talk of building codes is laughable. This is cheap student housing in a neighborhood frequented by drug dealers and second-story men: lights hanging out of a hole in the ceiling, a front door that doesn't latch, shutters that won't close all the way, etc. etc. The slumlord landlord is raking it in while doing nothing to secure or maintain the building. It's a dump, folks.

Glad you cleared that up

Speaking of laughable what do you make of Dan O's theories - you earlier indicated you were a fan.

Did AK lie about the door ? & the lamp ? and if so Why ?

Are the 'bungling Battistelli or one of his cohorts' are off the hook ?

 

[katy_did]

Massei may not have mentioned it in the report (I will check on that) but I know Amanda was questioned about it in court by Mignini and the Kercher lawyer and both seemed to imply they wanted to break down the door to get the lamp back out of the room.

Yes, I know that Amanda was asked about it in court (in fact, Massei's only mentions of it come in his summary of court testimony) but my point was that it was never itself introduced as evidence by the prosecution, nor was it part of any 'clean-up theory' they put forward. And while there was some suggestive questioning about the reason they tried to break down the door, the question as to whether Amanda took the lamp into the room herself was carefully avoided.

 

[katy_did]

If you ever make your mind up let me know.

I guess the 'Lamp Mystery' and its role in the CT isn't resolved & so there we must leave it for the moment.

OT
Here's an idea for a True Crime TV show - "Vicky Pollard & Liam Gallagher investigate"

Yes, I think while your method of 'arguing' is to dismiss any opposing argument as a conspiracy theory without being able to define what you think a conspiracy theory actually is, there is indeed little scope for a productive discussion.

If you like, you could ponder your reasons for (presumably?) believing the saga of the 'missing' sweatshirt to be an unfortunate though innocent police error, while the forgotten lamp would be a bona fide CT.

 

[RoseMontague]

Yes, I think while your method of 'arguing' is to dismiss any opposing argument as a conspiracy theory without being able to define what you think a conspiracy theory actually is, there is indeed little scope for a productive discussion.

If you like, you could ponder your reasons for (presumably?) believing the saga of the 'missing' sweatshirt to be an unfortunate though innocent police error, while the forgotten lamp would be a bona fide CT.

Quote from Frank regarding the lamp (bolding mine).

Mignini believed the cops when they told him that Knox and Sollecito had called 112 after the postal police arrived; that Amanda spontaneously named Patrick and that she had an appointment with him; that there was a strong bleach smell; that Raffaele went to sterilize his shirt; that he was cutting girls back in Puglia, and so many other truths...
So, Mignini knows who he can thank if he becomes the most unpopular judge in the world. Keep on believing them, Giuliano. Don’t investigate them. Don’t ask yourself why the November 6 fax was sent. Don’t ask yourself where the DNA comes from. Don’t ask yourself what was the lamp doing there, stuck under Meredith's door. Keep on believing them, Perugia.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2011/01/amanda-knox-was-having-sex-with-guy.html

 

[Kaosium]

Quote from Frank regarding the lamp (bolding mine).

Don’t ask yourself where the DNA comes from. Don’t ask yourself what was the lamp doing there, stuck under Meredith's door. Keep on believing them, Perugia.

Whoa! Now I'm interested in this lamp! What could he have meant? Is he merely implying the police brought it into the room? That wouldn't seem exciting enough to hint about like that. What is special about a lamp being behind a door...or perhaps it's because he included it directly after mentioning the DNA 'evidence?'

 

[RoseMontague]

Whoa! Now I'm interested in this lamp! What could he have meant? Is he merely implying the police brought it into the room? That wouldn't seem exciting enough to hint about like that. What is special about a lamp being behind a door...or perhaps it's because he included it directly after mentioning the DNA 'evidence?'

I do know that I have never found a report that indicated any of the people that were at the door when it was broken down said anything in statements or testimony about the lamp or lamp cord. I would love to see one if someone has a link.

 

[platonov]

Exciting new developments in Lamp mystery expected.

Yes, I think while your method of 'arguing' is to dismiss any opposing argument as a conspiracy theory without being able to define what you think a conspiracy theory actually is, there is indeed little scope for a productive discussion.

If you like, you could ponder your reasons for (presumably?) believing the saga of the 'missing' sweatshirt to be an unfortunate though innocent police error, while the forgotten lamp would be a bona fide CT.

No, my method of arguing was to cover the salient issues around the 'Mystery of AK's Lamp' regarding Q's to AK on the stand in my 1st post and its mention in Massei in my second.

Since then we have had much hilarity and circularity but little clarity on this issue. And much attempted diversion to sweatshirts, receipts etc etc

Now we are at 'The Cops' vs '6 days /super nightsight' and still no answer as to why AK didn't clear this up/lied when on the stand i.e. AK is in on the conspiracy.

Oh, and your rather bizarre suggestion that 'the question as to whether Amanda took the lamp into the room herself was carefully avoided'. It seems everyone in the court and here (given the furor) managed to understand the point of 'the aborted door break down' Q. If you didn't then so be it.

Now has Frank S or Kaosium got another new theory ? I for one cant wait

 

[Kaosium]

No, my method of arguing was to cover the salient issues around the 'Mystery of AK's Lamp' regarding Q's to AK on the stand in my 1st post and its mention in Massei in my second.

Since then we have had much hilarity and circularity but little clarity on this issue. And much attempted diversion to sweatshirts, receipts etc etc

Now we are at 'The Cops' vs '6 days /super nightsight' and still no answer as to why AK didn't clear this up/lied when on the stand i.e. AK is in on the conspiracy.

Oh, and your rather bizarre suggestion that 'the question as to whether Amanda took the lamp into the room herself was carefully avoided'. It seems everyone in the court and here (given the furor) managed to understand the point of 'the aborted door break down' Q. If you didn't then so be it.

Now has Frank S or Kaosium got another new theory ? I for one cant wait

I am to please!

As I recall Amanda's testimony on the all-important, absolutely case-crucial smoking-gun lamp, ultimate proof of the clean-up that never occurred, sinister motive for not breaking down the door and repository of all things diabolical in this case--and the Kennedy assassination as well--was something to the effect of:

'Huh? A lamp? I dunno, was it mine?'

Obviously she must be lying! Yet more proof of the lamp's significance! She even conspired against herself on the stand to protect the dread secret of the lamp! What more proof can we need of Amanda and Raffaele's guilt of murderous depravity than that artful dodging of these critical questions!

Never fear though, true believers, Platonov is on the case to demand an answer!

Sounds to me like the cops just got sloppy and then when Mignini/Giobbi noticed didn't have the guts to tell them the truth and just scapegoated Amanda as it was another of their mistakes they could blame a helpless person for.

 

[platonov]

I am to please!

As I recall Amanda's testimony on the all-important, absolutely case-crucial smoking-gun lamp, ultimate proof of the clean-up that never occurred, sinister motive for not breaking down the door and repository of all things diabolical in this case--and the Kennedy assassination as well--was something to the effect of:

'Huh? A lamp? I dunno, was it mine?'

Obviously she must be lying! Yet more proof of the lamp's significance! She even conspired against herself on the stand to protect the dread secret of the lamp! What more proof can we need of Amanda and Raffaele's guilt of murderous depravity than that artful dodging of these critical questions!

Never fear though, true believers, Platonov is on the case to demand an answer!

Sounds to me like the cops just got sloppy and then when Mignini/Giobbi noticed didn't have the guts to tell them the truth and just scapegoated Amanda as it was another of their mistakes they could blame a helpless person for.

Real change of speed there Kaosium

Frank S had you all excited and now .... nothing.

Whoa! Now I'm interested in this lamp! What could he have meant? Is he merely implying the police brought it into the room? That wouldn't seem exciting enough to hint about like that. What is special about a lamp being behind a door...or perhaps it's because he included it directly after mentioning the DNA 'evidence?'

What happened - He's a tease isn't he

As for the 'true believers' there appears to be a schism ['The Cops' vs '6 days /super nightsight'] which has not yet been healed.

I 'see' you are going for 'The Cops' did it - good call !

 

[Kaosium]

Real change of speed there Kaosium

Frank S had you all excited and now .... nothing.




What happened - He's a tease isn't he

As for the 'true believers' there appears to be a schism ['The Cops' vs '6 days /super nightsight'] which has not yet been healed.

I 'see' you are going for 'The Cops' did it - good call !

'The trial was a pig-circus, they never had a chance.'

Yeah, they didn't miss many opportunities to blame their incompetence on her, have you ever heard of the Native American concept of a 'sin eater?'

 

[platonov]

Fans disappointed with Frank S exposé - it was the cops (again)

Well that was a letdown - it was the cops after all. Boring

Still mustn't grumble - the exposition of this aspect of the CT had a certain charm !


Any thoughts on my Q regarding Dan O's theory.
Did AK lie about the door ? and if so Why ?

 

[Kaosium]

Well that was a letdown - it was the cops after all. Boring

Still mustn't grumble - the exposition of this aspect of the CT had a certain charm !

It does, doesn't it? One day you'll wake up thinking 'forwards' and realize them trying to pretend that irrelevant damned lamp was anything but an irrelevant damned lamp is the signature of desperate conspiracy theorists.

Any thoughts on my Q regarding Dan O's theory.
Did AK lie about the door ? and if so Why ?

Obviously! She had to make sure her puppet Raffaele very carefully didn't break the door down and retrieve the irrelevant damned lamp which was proof positive of the clean-up that never occurred!

However it was very important that she have her slaveboy try so conspiracy theorists years from now can still be speculating as to the motives of her ordering Raffaele to fail to break down the door and not retrieve the irrelevant damned lamp which was absolute proof of the clean-up that never occurred.

Do I sound testy?

I'm looking after my brother's three year-old and she's one high-maintenance chick! 'Hurricane Gabrielle' I call her, or 'Little Miss Mess.' She will destroy men someday, I'm sure of it. During the course of this post I had to feed her a third breakfast, (where does it go?!?) get her another sippy-cup of lemonade, and then transport that sippy-cup from the table three feet away from her and back to her hands four times. She can disappear in a heartbeat and get into the most absurd places and create utter catastrophe, but putting that bloody drink of hers on the table is apparently only Uncle Kaosium's job.

 

[PhantomWolf]

As for the 'true believers' there appears to be a schism ['The Cops' vs '6 days /super nightsight'] which has not yet been healed.

You have managed to show evidence that there were no other working lights in Amanda's room? I must have missed that, could you point it out?

 

[Draca]

You have managed to show evidence that there were no other working lights in Amanda's room? I must have missed that, could you point it out?

Looking at her room photos I don't see any other source of light. The overhead light wasn't working from my understanding - the light bulb hangs loose from the ceiling. I would think she would notice the lamp missing if it was more than a couple of days though.

 

[babycondor]

Amanda's trial testimony:

M: In your room in via della Pergola, was there a central light?

AK: There was one but it didn't work, so I used the little bedside lamp.

FM: The lamp.

AK: The little lamp, yes.

 

[quadraginta]

Amanda's trial testimony:

M: In your room in via della Pergola, was there a central light?

AK: There was one but it didn't work, so I used the little bedside lamp.

FM: The lamp.

AK: The little lamp, yes.

This won't help. We already know that LJ doesn't consider Knox to be a reliable source.

But thanks for the effort, anyway. I thought I had remembered something like that.

 

[Dan O.]

quadraginta, are you still holding the claim^* that Amanda would have needed to use her desk lamp sometime in the last few days before the murder?Are you ever going to try to prove that claim with specifics such as: When was Amanda in her room at a time that the natural light wasn't sufficient to render that tiny desk lamp insignificant for the purpose of illuminating the room?

(*katy_did actually made this claim in post 759 but quadraginta is the one arguing for it)