The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[quadraginta]

Have you forgotten what Amanda said about the availability of natural light in her room or have you simply not been following the discussions?

Have you forgotten that the post of mine you just quoted specifically mentions her window (in red), or have you simply not been following the discussions?

 

[RoseMontague]

Afraid I can't see the contradiction between the lamp having been left in the room accidentally by the police, and the prosecution never using it as evidence in Court. Can you point out where the 'conspiracy' comes in there - aside from conspiracy theorists on the web seeing the lamp as part of an elaborate clean-up, obviously? (the other two lights in the room apparently not being sufficient)

If you see that as a 'conspiracy', then I can only imagine what you think of the prosecution using Amanda's "missing" sweatshirt as evidence in Court to keep her in jail, only for the same sweatshirt to turn up lying on her bed where she said she left it. Now that's something which is admittedly a bit more difficult to put down to 'incompetence'...

Massei may not have mentioned it in the report (I will check on that) but I know Amanda was questioned about it in court by Mignini and the Kercher lawyer and both seemed to imply they wanted to break down the door to get the lamp back out of the room.

 

[Dan O.]

Have you already forgotten the post you had just written and highlighted in RED?

the only light in her room aside from the window

Meanwhile, an excerpt from Amanda's testimony:

"I only have one window, but it was also coming from the other side because there's a balcony."​

 

[platonov]

I'm quite used to LJ's careful manipulation of language, but there isn't really any need to be "wary", anymore than there is to be wary of teenagers' transparent attempts at dissembling when they know they are caught out.

I just enjoy watching him wriggle on the hooks of his own devising. It's a rather low form of amusement, I admit, but it's better than most of what is offered on TV.

Fair enough - I must plead guilty on this score also.

Re TV - wait till the new show "VP & LG investigate" airs. It might be the dumbest show ever but the potential for hilarity is immense if the difficulty of translation from a different medium can be overcome.

 

[Dan O.]

Massei may not have mentioned it in the report (I will check on that) but I know Amanda was questioned about it in court by Mignini and the Kercher lawyer and both seemed to imply they wanted to break down the door to get the lamp back out of the room.

You have to keep in mind too that the only evidence that Raffaele tried to break down Meredith's door came from Amanda and Raffaele. Did they point this out before Meredith's door was smashed open or was this offered freely after the physical evidence of the attempt was smashed?

 

[platonov]

You have to keep in mind too that the only evidence that Raffaele tried to break down Meredith's door came from Amanda and Raffaele. Did they point this out before Meredith's door was smashed open or was this offered freely after the physical evidence of the attempt was smashed?

So AK is in on the conspiracy

Or maybe she was smart enough to realise that some of the witnesses in the hall may have noticed the damage to the door and this would be queried.

 

[LondonJohn]

There's a light switch next to the entry door into my apartment on the inside of the room. In fact there are two. (It's a duplex switch.)

One turns the outside light in the entry breezeway on and off. The other switches the power to a wall outlet on the opposite side of the room. There is no overhead light in the room, or in any of the living rooms of the other ~250 apartments in this complex. This includes the one, two, and three bedroom varieties. (Mrs. qg has complained bitterly and frequently about this. She wants to install a ceiling fan, and I don't want to have power cords stapled to the ceiling. )

Just because a wall has a switch doesn't mean there is an overhead light to go with it.

I do hope you're not being serious here. Perhaps you can let me know why a switch for an internal hallway light might be sited on the inside (i.e. bedroom side) of a bedroom door. It in no way compares to your carefully-selected example of a door leading to a communal exterior, where of course the switch for an external light which lights the entryway to the apartment would be situated inside the property. As for the other switch controlling a power outlet on the other side of the room, well that's just plain strange, and surely not best practice by a very long shot.

I thought you had sufficient building-related knowledge to know such things, and to know the difference. But then, maybe not...

Incidentally, photos of Knox's bedroom show a two-gang light switch next to the door on the inside. It looks like one of the switches controls a wall-mounted light which is hanging loose from the wall (I suspect the landlord might be breaking the law here, but you never can tell in Italy) and has a blue bulb in the light socket, while the other switch controls a ceiling light.

How and why did you reach the opinion that there was no light source in Knox's room other than the window and her table lamp?

 

[LondonJohn]

I'm quite used to LJ's careful manipulation of language, but there isn't really any need to be "wary", anymore than there is to be wary of teenagers' transparent attempts at dissembling when they know they are caught out.

I just enjoy watching him wriggle on the hooks of his own devising. It's a rather low form of amusement, I admit, but it's better than most of what is offered on TV.

What wriggling am I doing, and where am I "carefully manipulating" language? But I guess if it makes you feel better and more secure in your own beliefs to suppose that this is happening, then be my guest.

 

[platonov]

There's a light switch next to the entry door into my apartment on the inside of the room.

<snip>

I take it back.
I bow down before you Sir

 

[LondonJohn]

I take it back.
I bow down before you Sir

NOT(great minds think alike)

 

[Matthew Best]

There's a light switch next to the entry door into my apartment on the inside of the room. In fact there are two. (It's a duplex switch.)

One turns the outside light in the entry breezeway on and off. The other switches the power to a wall outlet on the opposite side of the room. There is no overhead light in the room, or in any of the living rooms of the other ~250 apartments in this complex. This includes the one, two, and three bedroom varieties. (Mrs. qg has complained bitterly and frequently about this. She wants to install a ceiling fan, and I don't want to have power cords stapled to the ceiling. )

Fascinating. Do please tell us more about your apartment. It's quite illuminating.

 

[LondonJohn]

Fascinating. Do please tell us more about your apartment. It's quite illuminating.

I know one thing - I wouldn't want to touch qg's light switches with wet hands

ETA: I also miss qg trying to rationalise why it was a good idea to fit an exterior door to the girls' house which is designed to have a handle-operated spring latch with handles on both sides, but where the exterior-facing handle has not been installed (meaning that it would be impossible to get in from outside, even with a key, without someone operating the handle from the inside, and resulting in the bodge-job wedging in of the spring latch).

ETA ETA: Ahhh I think the final stab at reasoning on this one was along the lines of: "oh, but this model lock mechanism was designed so that the key would operate the spring latch as well as the deadbolts". Hehe yeah right! That'd be why the clumsy "fix" was done to wedge the latch open. The key only operated the deadbolt, and the installation was a bodge job.

 

[quadraginta]

Have you already forgotten the post you had just written and highlighted in RED?
Meanwhile, an excerpt from Amanda's testimony:

"I only have one window, but it was also coming from the other side because there's a balcony."​

You shouldn't stretch so hard all at one time like that. You might strain something important. Like your credibility. (Hers has already shown to be remarkably flexible.)

The question at hand involves the presence or absence of artificial light sources inside Knox's room.

And don't bother going on about streetlights, either. That'll just make your arguments look sillier and more desperate than they already do.

 

[Dan O.]

You shouldn't stretch so hard all at one time like that. You might strain something important. Like your credibility. (Hers has already shown to be remarkably flexible.)

The question at hand involves the presence or absence of artificial light sources inside Knox's room.

And don't bother going on about streetlights, either. That'll just make your arguments look sillier and more desperate than they already do.

Maybe, instead of trying to throw insults, you need to come up with exactly what time you think Amanda needed that artificial light in her room.

 

[quadraginta]

I do hope you're not being serious here. Perhaps you can let me know why a switch for an internal hallway light might be sited on the inside (i.e. bedroom side) of a bedroom door.

It isn't clear to me why I should, since I suggested no such thing, but if your straw man is that important to you I might be able to dream something up. It isn't germane to the discussion, though.

It in no way compares to your carefully-selected example of a door leading to a communal exterior, where of course the switch for an external light which lights the entryway to the apartment would be situated inside the property.

Also not germane. And weak. You're not at your best form today.

As for the other switch controlling a power outlet on the other side of the room, well that's just plain strange, and surely not best practice by a very long shot.

I thought you had sufficient building-related knowledge to know such things, and to know the difference. But then, maybe not...

Switched outlets are quite common, at least in modern parts of the world. And remarkably convenient.

I can't speak to conditions where you live. My condolences for your suffering.

Not only are they common, but the NEC (National Electrical Code) in the U.S. requires that any habitable space in a residential structure have at least one switched lighting outlet (NEC 270.10(A)(1)). For the purposes of this usage a permanently installed light fixture is considered to be an outlet, but in the absence of such a fixture (ceiling, wall sconce, recessed, etc.) a switched receptacle must be provided. Wall receptacles are the usual solution to this.

Far from being a safety problem it is a safety requirement, a tidbit of construction esoterica which more than one home handyman has learned to their dismay when trying to get a final inspection signed off for an addition or remodeling project.

Incidentally, photos of Knox's bedroom show a two-gang light switch next to the door on the inside. It looks like one of the switches controls a wall-mounted light which is hanging loose from the wall (I suspect the landlord might be breaking the law here, but you never can tell in Italy) and has a blue bulb in the light socket, while the other switch controls a ceiling light.

Did these lights function?

How and why did you reach the opinion that there was no light source in Knox's room other than the window and her table lamp?

I believe there has been discussion in the past on this topic. As I said in my original post it was only a recollection.

Is it your position that there was a functioning artificial light source inside Knox's bedroom aside from her desk lamp at the time of the murder? That seemed to be the gist of your assertion.

 

[quadraginta]

Fascinating. Do please tell us more about your apartment. It's quite illuminating.

I am pleased that I am able to add to your knowledge base. Are switched receptacles also unknown where you live?

 

[quadraginta]

I know one thing - I wouldn't want to touch qg's light switches with wet hands

If your understanding of basic residential electrical code is as limited as you claim I would understand your reluctance to touch any switches. I hope you didn't learn this lesson by testing your own knowledge in the field.

ETA: I also miss qg trying to rationalise why it was a good idea to fit an exterior door to the girls' house which is designed to have a handle-operated spring latch with handles on both sides, but where the exterior-facing handle has not been installed (meaning that it would be impossible to get in from outside, even with a key, without someone operating the handle from the inside, and resulting in the bodge-job wedging in of the spring latch).

ETA ETA: Ahhh I think the final stab at reasoning on this one was along the lines of: "oh, but this model lock mechanism was designed so that the key would operate the spring latch as well as the deadbolts". Hehe yeah right! That'd be why the clumsy "fix" was done to wedge the latch open. The key only operated the deadbolt, and the installation was a bodge job.

Or ...

...an installation which was designed to ensure that the residence was locked upon exit was willfully defeated by occupants who had been inconvenienced by forgetting their key when they went out the door.

In the absence of any reason to assume otherwise (such as trying to maintain a point of argument) I know which explanation seems most likely to me.

 

[quadraginta]

Maybe, instead of trying to throw insults, you need to come up with exactly what time you think Amanda needed that artificial light in her room.

Why?

LJ was suggesting that the lamp may have been in Meredith's room for days, which is what prompted my comment.

How long do you suppose Knox might have gone without noticing that her lamp was missing if there was no other serviceable light source in her room beyond whatever daylight it managed to get?

 

[Dan O.]

So AK is in on the conspiracy

Or maybe she was smart enough to realise that some of the witnesses in the hall may have noticed the damage to the door and this would be queried.

As I said, I don't recall if they had mentioned this earlier but if they had it was another failure on the part of Perugia's communications police to secure the evidence.

There is nothing about the cracked door that points a finger at Amanda and Raffaele. If they had remained silent it likely would have been undiscovered and if discovered it could have been interpreted as existing prior to the crime or resulting when Meredith tried to flee her attacker. In fact, how do we know that this is not the case and Raffaele only discovered the crack when he pushed on the door?

How do you so effortlessly turn an honest statement into a sign of guilt? That sort of process truly baffles me.

 

[Dan O.]

Why?

LJ was suggesting that the lamp may have been in Meredith's room for days, which is what prompted my comment.

How long do you suppose Knox might have gone without noticing that her lamp was missing if there was no other serviceable light source in her room beyond whatever daylight it managed to get?

I would say about 6 days. Ever since she met Raffaele she had been sleeping at his place and only coming back to the cottage in the morning to shower and change.