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The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory


Thanks Rose, you're more patient than me! I think I went on to press Platonov on what evidence in particular Amanda was trying to explain away with the bathmat shuffle, but he was uncharacteristically non-committal.
 
LOL. You know you said it, dear Platonov. It's just that you escaped from the jaws of the retrocausality shark in the nick of time.

Anyway, I've already pointed out that there's no reason I would say you said what you said unless you did in fact say it. The onus is now on you to prove you didn't, in fact, say it, as Massei would say.

Crickets still chirping on the time of death issue, then?


There is - in your haste to run interference for LJ (about the 7th poster to do so) and change the subject, you lied.
Its quite straightforward :)

If only LJ had opted for discretion like KL as opposed to rewriting history valour you would have been saved the trouble ( but it was instructive and funny - LJ's stuff not yours )

Now lets revisit this ToD issue - I have some ideas on this score.
 
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There is - in your haste to run interference for LJ (about the 7th poster to do so) and change the subject, you lied.
Its quite straightforward :)

If only LJ had opted for discretion like KL as opposed to rewriting history valour you would have been saved the trouble ( but it was instructive and funny - LJ's stuff not yours )

Now lets revisit this ToD issue - I have some ideas on this score.

She didn't lie platonov. I remembered the discussion quite clearly.
 
She didn't lie platonov. I remembered the discussion quite clearly.

So wheres the link that equates to this

But that would mean Plat would have to commit to an opinion, and last time he did that he fell into the retrocausality trap when he suggested super-psychic Amanda made up the 'bathmat shuffle' to explain the luminol footprints which were in fact discovered the day afterwards.

So I can understand his reluctance.

No it was a lie !

But get get 5 more Foakers to pile in and you will have proved the some point :)
 
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So wheres the link that equates to this

No it as a lie !

You implied that Amanda made up the story of the bathmat shuffle because she anticipated the finding of the luminol prints, yet had she known about the luminol prints, she would obviously have cleaned them up (they were invisible, never cleaned up prints) and hence they would never have been found and she would have had no need to make up a story about them in the first place. Your logic is back to front, assuming that she knew about prints which wouldn't have existed had she known about them (save time travel/psychic powers - hence the reference to retrocausality).

I think your best bet is to align yourself (in retrospect) with Rose's theory.
 
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You implied that Amanda made up the story of the bathmat shuffle because she anticipated the finding of the luminol prints, yet had she known about the luminol prints, she would obviously have cleaned them up (they were invisible, never cleaned up prints) and hence they would never have been found and she would have had no need to make up a story about them in the first place. Your logic is back to front, assuming that she knew about prints which wouldn't have existed had she known about them (save time travel/psychic powers - hence the reference to retrocausality).

I think your best bet is to align yourself (in retrospect) with Rose's theory.


We're done on this - you were caught out in a lie.

Walls of text where you tell me what I implied but cant repost my post wont change that. If I can wade thru Kaosiums work your puny efforts are no challenge :)

And I'm still going to revisit the ToD issue !
 
You implied that Amanda made up the story of the bathmat shuffle because she anticipated the finding of the luminol prints, yet had she known about the luminol prints, she would obviously have cleaned them up (they were invisible, never cleaned up prints) and hence they would never have been found and she would have had no need to make up a story about them in the first place. Your logic is back to front, assuming that she knew about prints which wouldn't have existed had she known about them (save time travel/psychic powers - hence the reference to retrocausality).

I think your best bet is to align yourself (in retrospect) with Rose's theory.

I agree. If it were me I would apologize.
 
ToD issue ... and much more besides

OK this ToD issue

LJ & KL et al have shown that p=0.98 for ToD at 150 minutes after meal start time.

RM here shows that meal start time = 6 pm

Therefore probability of Tod by 8.30 = 98%

Now we add 3.5% as per LJ earlier to get 101.5% - i.e. for sure for sure.

We wont use the 25% correction LJ earlier adopted because while that might fly in Cartwheel world here in CT world we have some standards ;)


This explains why MK's friends changed their their testimony as per RM LINK - obviously to protect themselves as they are guilty of the murder :eek:


Now why would the defence teams of RS and AK not flag this up ?

Well all Italians are corrupt and out to frame beautiful american 'girls' obviously as numerous Foakers have pointed out.

Why are RS and AK remaining silent or giving such incriminating testimony - Mkultra as I showed here.

Ta da :cool: - that was easy.



Now what's to be done ....
Deniable covert ops probably, utilizing civilian volunteers - no weight or age restrictions obviously. The NATO thing precludes using special forces - even if that commie Obama would sanction it.

Do the Foakers know any ex CIA or FBI types who could lead the 101st MAM on this dangerous mission ??
 
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Evasion of the question is noted.

This is just making you look silly, platonov - though I assume you think it makes you look clever. Oh well.


Clever is relative - in certain company I'm a veritable genius :)

But never mind all that - are you ready to get with the program and join the team ... Get on board for the big win, win one for the fair lady.

The money isnt great - the odd 9 bob note might fall your way - but there is the promise of fringe benefits.

What say you sir ?
 
The list of claims in this thread as it currently stands:
(originally posted here, here and here)

[table=head;sort=2]Poster|Post|Claim|Status
banquetbear|561|Amanda then admitted to being at the crime scene and claimed Patrick was the murderer.|unsubstantiated
tsig|590|Since Amanda voluntarily walked into the police station she could have left anytime she wanted until she accused Patrick|unsubstantiated
platonov|601|He broke both their original alibis and admitted to lying about said alibis.|unsubstantiated
stilicho|618|The forensics investigators had already finished with Filomena's window. It was not the point of entry; the front door was.|unsubstantiated
stilicho|618|They took pictures and examined the ground below her window. It was not disturbed and there was no evidence that anyone had scaled the wall.|unsubstantiated
platonov|649|the possible 7pm meal start time|retracted(669)
[/table]

This one though looks like a retraction of the earlier claim:
platonov| 669 |That possible 7pm meal start time is certainly best ignore d :) [as was the 5.30 - 6.00 on other occasions]|retraction of 649

And then denial that it even existed.
platonov| 678 |I don't have any claim per se|denial?
 
The same thing I've said at least three times with no response: what time do you think Kercher died?

So you wont go that last mile for freedom - lets hope Manders other admirers are up for it.
Are you sure - note the 'no weight or age restrictions'.

BTW It sweet the way you jump in with the incisive 1 liners [ as was your use of the term crickets :) ] but they will be ignored as they have been for months on the cartwheel thread unless you make an effort.

Look at the nice table Dan O has constructed or the impudent lie of katy did.
 
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It's beginning to look like you're concentrating on talking about tiny statistical discrepancies as a way of avoiding the main subject. I suppose that's your prerogative, but I imagine people will tire of it shortly, if they haven't already, as I have done.
 
It's beginning to look like you're concentrating on talking about tiny statistical discrepancies as a way of avoiding the main subject. I suppose that's your prerogative, but I imagine people will tire of it shortly, if they haven't already, as I have done.

Quite frankly I was interested to see both sides of this thing, and figured that this thread might be good, rather then having to wade through the mass of the 3 in the Current Events, but the responses and attitide of certain posters in it have put me off quite a bit. If there is one thing that has pished me towards thinking Amanda is innocent, it's been the way those claiming guilt have acted here, several posters more than others. Arrogance, rudeness, superioriness, refusing to answer questions or support claims. It's something I expect from those pushing CTs, not so-called skeptics.
 
A False (On planet earth anyway) - he broke both their alibis and admitted to lying about said alibis. !!!

Not quite, he admitted in his diary he told the cops a 'load of crap' because he was stoned. His statement suggests the reason he did that is he was also stoned the night of the murder and he'd just accepted Amanda's recollection as he wasn't sure, or he'd misunderstood what she had said previous due to language difficulties and hadn't thought out the 'contradictions'--which incidentally would turn out to be entirely imaginary. One can also get the impression from his diary that in his fogged state he just blew them off, told them what they wanted to hear so they'd go bug Amanda about it and leave him alone.

This process took a total of twenty-five minutes from the moment Raffaele and Amanda walked into the police station until the time of the statement Raffaele signed. That suggests to me that Raffaele didn't think any of this was a big deal and certainly didn't think he was recanting an alibi for a murder, after all Raffaele has no reason to think when he walked in there that the police would ever suspect him or Amanda of murder. My guess is they told him, like they did Amanda, that they had 'hard evidence' she was at the scene, and he just succumbed to their version as what's a stoned college student going to do in that situation, argue with them about it?

B False


halides1 - are you trolling or are you still unfamiliar with the basic facts of the case after 45K posts.


Did you ever wonder why Raffaele is barely mentioned in the statements? Here this is supposed to be a 'confession' to murder by three people, and all Raffaele gets is a one-liner in the first statement where she's not sure whether he was with her, and nothing at all in the second statement. Don't you suppose they might have been asking her about Raffaele? One would imagine that would be reflected by the second statement.

I think I know why Raffaele is hardly noted and wasn't the subject of intense inquiry, it's because when she walked in there they thought she had conspired with Patrick, and Raffaele wasn't involved. It wasn't until later when they thought they'd gotten a 'confession' and they noted Raffaele's shoe tread was similar to the pattern of Rudy Guede's in the murder room that they actually arrested Raffaele. Previous to that all they wanted from Raffaele was to 'confirm' their suspicion that Amanda had left that night.

Not that this is of any relevance whatsoever, as outside of CT - Cartwheel world, the issue of the arrests has never been challenged* by lawyers for AK or RS or anywhere in the real world.

* What would they say - 'well OK there's lots of evidence against the pair and they will be/have been found guilty but you had no right to arrest them - so there' and flounce off in a strop :sour:

It was challenged from the start, that's why those statements were taken all the way to the Supreme Court and ruled upon. However, your asterisked notation underlines why I tend to think of you as the 'White Knight talking backwards.' It seems there you take the position that because they were found guilty that's proof positive they were arrested properly, despite the fact you know they are innocent of the crime they were arrested for. Amanda and Raffaele did not conspire with Patrick Lumumba to murder Meredith Kercher and then then 'stage' a break-in to make it look like an outsider.

All the 'evidence' that the above occurred that they produced for the Court of Freedom is of course bogus or a misunderstanding. What you're failing to take into account is the possibility that because they were arrested improperly, that additional 'evidence' was compiled against them anyway, and as a result they were found guilty when they shouldn't have been. That what was produced in court is the sort of thing one would find when attempting to gather evidence of innocent people, it just happened to be enough for a jury who had numerous reasons to believe they were guilty due to the conditions of the time, and the nature of the Italian system which often gives the prosecution a wide latitude in trials of the first instance.

Clever is relative - in certain company I'm a veritable genius :)

But never mind all that - are you ready to get with the program and join the team ... Get on board for the big win, win one for the fair lady.

The money isnt great - the odd 9 bob note might fall your way - but there is the promise of fringe benefits.

What say you sir ?

I like your analogy, I see you as a carnival barker here. It just so happens that right now you're standing behind the curtain. It was going through this part right here that caused me to see just what had happened in this case. I'd gone through the evidence piece by piece only to find it was either so embarrassing it indicted the prosecution ('murder knife' and bra clasp) or was irrelevant in the sense it was expected to be found whether they were involved in the murder or not.

However, I still maintained a lingering suspicion that Amanda and Raffaele might be involved somehow, after all perhaps the cops 'knew' she was involved, they just couldn't assemble a good enough case and just threw everything they could at her and went beyond the bounds of propriety; I understand 'greater good' arguments. So I decided to read up about the interrogation and the arrest of Amanda, Patrick and Raffaele and see if they had legitimate reasons to be suspicious of her, and just what the 'confession' and the 'gift note' amounted to, as I'd seen excerpts but hadn't read the source material for myself.

Now I want you to do it. You seem to have suggested above that arguing about whether they should have been arrested is pointless, as they'd be found guilty and evidence was presented that was accepted by a jury thus 'obviously' they must have been arrested properly. I think you're applying a little 'retro-causality' style thinking, as there is another possibility here: that because Amanda and Raffaele were arrested, then evidence was compiled against them which was tainted by investigator bias which would explain why it's all embarrassing or irrelevant, and why no one making the guilt argument ever wants to talk about the evidence anymore.

You have to 'remember, remember the Fifth of November' because that's where all this starts, when the cops put the pressure on a stoned college student and he folded like a cheap tent and told them what they wanted to hear, and then put the screws to a girl barely out of her teens and she eventually freaked out. As a result of that they arrested all three of them for a crime they didn't commit. I've outlined what I think happened, subject to better information of course, now why don't you produce the police's version of the interrogation and the arrest of Raffaele, Amanda, and Patrick? Note, not the PMF version, which I can still see some adhere to, notably when Tsig naively suggested Amanda could have just walked right out of there. You know better than that, the moment Raffaele 'dropped' her alibi Little Miss Cartwheels wasn't going anywhere.

Back on page eight I compiled some links detailing what the police said about the interrogation in court. Why don't you use them to try to explain to us all what the police version of the interrogation and the arrest of the 'murderers' actually is? I found that while Amanda's story is unusual it conforms to a known phenomenon, and when considering the circumstances is not as unlikely as one might think. The police's story in comparison is absolutely ridiculous and is shrouded by missing tapes and absurd leaps of logic that to this day have not been explained.

If you can't produce the police's story, if you don't even know it and think the PMF theory is what happened, doesn't that tell you something? Why is it this isn't common knowledge? Why instead of making fun of 'waterboarding' and the like you haven't hammered all us 'FOAKers' with the 'truth' of the interrogation by recounting the police's version of events so many times we're sick of hearing it? Shouldn't the 'official' account have some bearing, shouldn't you all be proud to regale all us 'groupies' with its infinite wisdom?

You're standing behind the curtain, Platonov. Do some real thinking and it will open your eyes.
 
My guess is they told him, like they did Amanda, that they had 'hard evidence' she was at the scene, and he just succumbed to their version as what's a stoned college student going to do in that situation, argue with them about it?

I'd guess they just said she left his flat, without detailing where exactly she went.
 

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