The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[platonov]

Meanwhile back in the real world ......

banquetbear,

A It is also unclear why the police arrested Raffaele at this point. He has never said anything besides that he was at his apartment that night. B Amanda did not say anything about him in her confused statements.

A False (On planet earth anyway) - he broke both their alibis and admitted to lying about said alibis. !!!

B False

halides1 - are you trolling or are you still unfamiliar with the basic facts of the case after 45K posts.

Not that this is of any relevance whatsoever, as outside of CT - Cartwheel world, the issue of the arrests has never been challenged* by lawyers for AK or RS or anywhere in the real world.

* What would they say - 'well OK there's lots of evidence against the pair and they will be/have been found guilty but you had no right to arrest them - so there' and flounce off in a strop

 

[Chris_Halkides]

alibi

A False (On planet earth anyway) - he broke both their alibis and admitted to lying about said alibis. !!!

B False

halides1 - are you trolling or are you still unfamiliar with the basic facts of the case after 45K posts.

Not that this is of any relevance whatsoever, as outside of CT - Cartwheel world, the issue of the arrests has never been challenged* by lawyers for AK or RS or anywhere in the real world.

* What would the say - 'well OK there's lots of evidence against the pair and they will be/have been found guilty but you had no right to arrest them - so there' and flounce off in a strop

platonov,

According to SomeAlibi, an alibi is simply a statement of where you were. Raffaele said that he was at his apartment; that is his alibi. Period. Full stop. I am going to let that sink in before saying any more.

 

[platonov]

I'll get back to you when it has sunk in

platonov,

According to SomeAlibi, an alibi is simply a statement of where you were. Raffaele said that he was at his apartment; that is his alibi. Period. Full stop. I am going to let that sink in before saying any more.

OK Can I Im going to hold you to that !! - I'll get back to you when it has sunk in

 

[lionking]

platonov,

According to SomeAlibi, an alibi is simply a statement of where you were. Raffaele said that he was at his apartment; that is his alibi. Period. Full stop. I am going to let that sink in before saying any more.

An alibi substantiated by a co-accused. That'll work.

 

[platonov]

An alibi substantiated by a co-accused. That'll work.

No lionking - in the issue under discussion [night of the 5th]....
he broke both their alibis and admitted to lying about said alibis


As halides1 has taken a vow of silence it falls to me to respond

 

[Katody Matrass]

Wikipedia for creepy perverts

From the recent edits it looks like Wikipedia article slowly but inevitably returns towards a neutral point of view. It certainly bothers some of the more emotionally invested guilters.

I just did a search on it on the page of the putschist guilter fraction. Here's what the more rabid conspiracy theorists are saying about Jimbo Wales, Wikipedia founder, who personally pointed out that the article is biased:

These are the people who "Jimbo" wants to use as reliable sources for his communal site. I mean, as long as he thinks he might have a crack at banging Knox. He intervenes disproportionately in Wikipedia biographical articles involving attractive (to him) young women. To tell you the truth, Knox is what we ordinary males refer to as a "scag".

If Jimbo wanted to start his own precious article on "Railroading Brunettes I Want To Bang" then he should do so honestly instead of sneaking it in through the WP talk pages.

Somebody should give Jimbo a cold shower. He's really lathered up and ready for brunette sex killer action

I'm not a psychiatrist, but to my layman eye such public channeling of their own sexual desires doesn't look healthy.

Here we have a genuine conspiracy theory:

Jimbo from Wikopedia seems to be part of this whole theater act with Amanda and Brucy. I think he was somehow enlisted into this before that letter was ever sent.

And here we have a conspiracy theory with a sexual fantasy twist:

This is no accident. He is on record as interfering disproportionately in what he thinks are bangable young women's biographical pages. He slept with one of them while still married to his (now ex) wife.

Jimbo is precisely the profile of the aging Lothario looking for access to tail through his powerful media connections. He isn't thinking with his correct head and everything he's proposed is straight out of the FOA manual.

I am not that easily duped. He is getting this stuff from Bruce Fisher and, by aegis, the relentless PR campaign to change history and celebrate a convicted sex killer.

Yep, it's not easy to dupe a sexually frustrated conspiracy theorist. He got it all sorted out.

And some more projecting of sexual desires:

I don't see the pay-off in the end. Right now, Jimbo is on the verge of losing any sense of respect as a new media entrepreneur (lying about his checkuser results, for example) just for a chance to catch a peek of some tender young sex killer flesh.

Those guilters are creepy. All of it on a site dedicated to honoring Meredith's memory. Wow.

And more:

I'll state it outright. This case has really put my own gender in the worst possible light. I feel a little embarrassed at being a fellow of these men whose only attraction to the case is the fact that Knox is of child-bearing age and attractive in a trailer park sort of way. She would be trophy wife for Cletus, the slack-jawed hillbilly from The Simpsons.

Again, I'm no psychiatrist, but IMO there's some serious sexual frustration and insecurity channeling out from some of those people.

On the lighter note their frothing shows that things go generally in the right direction, both in real world of Perugia and on Wikipedia

 

[platonov]

This all appears very bizarre

<snip>

On the lighter note their frothing shows that things go generally in the right direction, both in real world of Perugia and on Wikipedia

This all appears very bizarre even by the standards of Foaker world [and very OT] but ......
The movie* having failed to release the heroine is Wiki now the target ? Cause and effect seems to be reversed here - being 'innocent' in the movies on wiki wont release AK.

* What happened there Kaosium

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

An alibi substantiated by a co-accused. That'll work.

If you've got no evidence to contest an alibi, just accuse the person providing the alibi of being in on it too. That'll work.

 

[tsig]

Quoth Amanda:

I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically. I met him in the evening of November 1st 2007, after sending him a reply message saying “I will see you”. We met soon after at about 21.00 at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana. We went to my apartment in Via della Pergola n. 7. I do not clearly remember if Meredith was already at home or if she came later, what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith’s room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. I cannot remember how long they stayed together in the room but I can only say that at a certain point I heard Meredith screaming and as I was scared I plugged up my hears. Then I do not remember anything, I am very confused. I do not remember if Meredith was screaming and if I heard some thuds too because I was upset, but I imagined what could have happened.-

That was easy.



Did you know that your pal Bruce Fisher ™ is about to be blocked at Wikipedia as Charlie and PhanuelB were preceding him? Apparently Wikipedia editors think they're unreliable idiots.

Have you posted there yet? Give it a shot. You too can articulate your conspiracy theory amid an adoring public of billions.

Thanks, I was a bit taken aback by such a bald denial of reality.

 

[tsig]

Amazer's already pulled out that little gem this week, so let's not go back to it!



Bolding mine
It's a bit rich calling this a 'lie' that baldly, then mentioning science in the same paragraph isn't it? Internalised false confessions are recognised and documented by science. According to the a lot of the literature (much of it discussed in this thread and the Continuation thread) there are certain vulnerabilities that can result in these kinds of 'confessions' and Amanda at that particular moment in time, displayed many of them.
C'mon, read the literature- it's psychology, not rocket science!

Since Amanda voluntarily walked into the police station she could have left anytime she wanted until she accused Patrick how was coercion possible?

 

[Dan O.]

Quoth Amanda:

I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically. I met him in the evening of November 1st 2007, after sending him a reply message saying “I will see you”. We met soon after at about 21.00 at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana. We went to my apartment in Via della Pergola n. 7. I do not clearly remember if Meredith was already at home or if she came later, what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith’s room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. I cannot remember how long they stayed together in the room but I can only say that at a certain point I heard Meredith screaming and as I was scared I plugged up my hears. Then I do not remember anything, I am very confused. I do not remember if Meredith was screaming and if I heard some thuds too because I was upset, but I imagined what could have happened.-

This statement was contested all the way to the Italian Supreme Court and ruled inadmissible for any purpose. It's obviously the result of invalid interrogation techniques and bad communications due to the lack of a proper translator. These are statements which the police "Already knew to be true" but which we know now were false assumptions and therefore a case of the police putting their own words in Amanda's mouth.

You have proven nothing.

 

[Dan O.]

Since Amanda voluntarily walked into the police station she could have left anytime she wanted until she accused Patrick how was coercion possible?

Not according to one police officer that testified that when they were about to arrest Raffaele she went out to insure Amanda wouldn't leave if Raffaele started screaming.

 

[Dan O.]

Thanks, I was a bit taken aback by such a bald denial of reality.

It is clearly you that is denying reality. Have you not been paying any attention to these threads?

 

[platonov]

What colour was Buridan's Ass

This statement was contested all the way to the Italian Supreme Court and ruled inadmissible for any purpose. It's obviously the result of invalid interrogation techniques and bad communications due to the lack of a proper translator. These are statements which the police "Already knew to be true" but which we know now were false assumptions and therefore a case of the police putting their own words in Amanda's mouth.

You have proven nothing.

False - are you trolling or are you still unfamiliar with the basic facts of the case after 45K posts.

However the lawyers for AK did try & succeeded in getting it ruled inadmissible on the main charge.
But it has been the mainstay of the IFS\Wb* trope which has littered up the cartwheel thread over many thousands of posts.
*Internalized False Confession\Waterboarding

Now the Q is ... why the fight to keep it out of the trial seeing as its proof of the IFS\Wb

Either ..

A IFS\Wb is, in this case, CT nonsense which is of no relevance whatsoever, anywhere in the real world.

OR

B The lawyers for AK are in on the conspiracy


Buridans Ass seems more appropriate than Morton's Fork

 

[bri1]

Since Amanda voluntarily walked into the police station she could have left anytime she wanted until she accused Patrick how was coercion possible?

Coercion doesn't only happen when people are imprisoned against their will. Coercive treatment is when human beings try and limit the freedom of an individual to make the choice & act in the way that he or she thinks is best and would otherwise do. So the only form of non-coercive interaction is presenting reasons and using rational argument. Anything else is coercive in nature, on a sliding scale from manipulation to a gun to the head. (This is the consensus in the philosophical literature). If you'd like some links to journal articles, I'm happy to help- this is an area of academic expertise for me
Amanda's physical freedom might not have been curtailed, but there were threats of this. There are many social and psychological reasons that she was not free to walk out of that room, because of the conduct of the police.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

her 5:45 statement

OK Can I Im going to hold you to that !! - I'll get back to you when it has sunk in

platonov,

With respect to Raffaele, all I can find is one sentence in the 5:45 AM statement, “I’m not sure whether Raffaele was there too that evening but I do remember waking up at his house in his bed and that in the morning I went back to where I lived, where I found the door open.” Taking the accuracy of this statement as a given, I would say that Ms. Knox did mention Mr. Sollecito (and I am happy to correct my earlier statement), but she failed to place him at her apartment. Prior to 5:45 AM was Raffaele free to leave the police station? If he were not, then I would say that what Ms. Knox said at 5:45 is only partially germane to my point, because Mr. Sollecito was being held without anyone placing him at the scene of the crime. That was my original point.

Ms. Knox’s statement also said, “after sending him [Patrick] a reply message saying “’I will see you.’” It also said, “Then I do not remember anything, I am very confused. I do not remember if Meredith was screaming and if I heard some thuds too because I was upset, but I imagined what could have happened.” Given the fact that Ms. Knox got her own text message wrong and that she speaks imagining what could have happened, I do not see how anyone could take her statement as an accurate reflection of the events of the night in question.

post script
I am happy to acknowledge that people use the word alibi in different ways. I stand by what I have said.

 

[platonov]

It hasn't sunk in yet

platonov,

<snip>

Silence, infidel !

post script
I use the word 'silence' in only 1 way. I stand by what I have said.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

what is an alibi

Silence, infidel !

post script
I use the word 'silence' in only 1 way. I stand by what I have said.

platonov,

I quote a lawyer and commenter on this case, "An alibi is an explanation by a defendant which is nothing more than their testimony of what they were doing at and around the time of a crime." Do you have a problem with this definition?

 

[platonov]

platonov,

I quote a lawyer and commenter on this case, "An alibi is an explanation by a defendant which is nothing more than their testimony of what they were doing at and around the time of a crime." Do you have a problem with this definition?

see above

I understand the definition of alibi and the concept of a false or changed alibi.

Is the definition of the word 'silence' too complex or are you not standing by your word - in the way RS did not stand by his original alibi

 

[Chris_Halkides]

what is your point?

see above

I understand the definition of alibi and the concept of a false or changed alibi.

Is the definiton of the word 'silence' too complex or are you not standing by your word - in the way RS did not stand by his original alibi

platonov,

I wrote, "I am going to let that sink in before saying any more," because I knew I would be out for several hours. Now that one of my chores is done, I can comment further, and I think several hours is long enough for any sinking in to occur (I never took a vow of silence). Mr. Sollecito has always said that he was at home on the night of 1 November. That is his alibi. He has only once (night of 5-6 November) said that Amanda was elsewhere (which constitutes failing to confirm her alibi at that moment). Maybe you can explain what your point is.