Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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I'm not. Its simple math really.
Depends upon the context, of course.

If something is 140 db, is it capable of being covered up by something that is 110 db?
Next to each other in a clean room, of course not, depending upon frequency and listener position, but then that's not what we're talking about, is it.

You're also not specifying whether you're talking about psycho-accoustic interpretation, measured SPL, ...

All manner of situations could come up where the sources interfere. Shall I go on... ?

Both, and neither.

Copy and paste one or the other.
No.

I've made it as simple as possible.
No you haven't, you've waved away context.

Here's something similarly as pointless...

Can you hear a 140dB *boom* originating at the center of the Earth ?

About as relevant as your question.

Aren't those type microphones DESIGNED specifically for that very purpose?
Absolutely. In the same way the broadcast microphones are specifically designed to filter out quite wide frequency ranges, with emphasis on normal human vocal frequency domain, and are generally very directional indeed.

Do camcorder microphones have the same design.

Yes

No.
As what ?

Please copy and paste your answer.
No.

But yet, booms from explosive demolitions are heard and can be captured on video for miles.
On video ? About 8 miles depending upon altitude and atmospherics. You probably mean the sound of hundreds of exposed controlled demolition cutter charges and wotnot. Sure, can be heard pretty easily.

Your point ? You're still arguing without actually running the sim. Yawn.

How about a simple camcorder microphone that is designed to capture a range of sounds?
How about it ?

Did you see Ashley Banfields' video from GZ during the collapse of 7WTC? It picked up the sounds of the collapse. Why wouldn't it pick up something MUCH louder?
How loud was the building descent in dB ? ;)
 
Depends upon the context, of course.

Next to each other in a clean room, of course not, depending upon frequency and listener position, but then that's not what we're talking about, is it.

No, unless the WTC complex was a clean room.

Yes or no. It's very simple.

Could something that produced a sound that measured 140 db. in Central Park, be covered up by something creating 110 db. in Central Park?

Yes

No.

Don't be obtuse.


You're also not specifying whether you're talking about psycho-accoustic interpretation, measured SPL, ...


Measured SPL. Go for it.


All manner of situations could come up where the sources interfere. Shall I go on... ?

Please do. Please explain to me how something that produces 140 db. could be covered up by something producing 110 db, and both sources are within 1500 feet of each other in a direct line of sight, with no buildings or mountains, or anything else in it's way.

Since I have to be VERY specific, I will make sure to list everything for you, since you seem to think that you're being funny and cute.


Both, and neither.

Way to avoid making a claim. Par for the course I guess.



No you haven't, you've waved away context.

Here's something similarly as pointless...

Can you hear a 140dB *boom* originating at the center of the Earth ?

About as relevant as your question.


Is the WTC in the center of the earth?

Don't be obtuse.

Absolutely. In the same way the broadcast microphones are specifically designed to filter out quite wide frequency ranges, with emphasis on normal human vocal frequency domain, and are generally very directional indeed.

How about ones you would find on camcorders that general civilians not in the news broadcasting field, would have purchased from any electronics retailer like Best Buy or Circuit City, circa 2001?


As what ?

Context kid, follow along. I'm sorry if the words I am using are too big for you. Let me dumb it down for you.

Do camcorders that general civilians not in the news broadcasting field, would have purchased from any electronics retailer like Best Buy or Circuit City, circa 2001, have the same design as the microphones used to pick up the sounds of a drum set?



On video ? About 8 miles depending upon altitude and atmospherics. You probably mean the sound of hundreds of exposed controlled demolition cutter charges and wotnot. Sure, can be heard pretty easily.

Your point ? You're still arguing without actually running the sim. Yawn.

Sorry, I don't need to run a sim to know that explosives capable of cutting a core column of the WTC would have been extremely loud, and caught on cameras all over Manhattan.

How about one simple cutter charge?

How about it ?

Please pull your head out of your ass and follow along.

How loud was the building descent in dB ? ;)

Obviously loud enough to be caught on film. But wait, didn't you claim that cameras that production people use (Newscrews) filter out those kinds of sounds? But yet, Ashley's microphone caught it.

Imagine that.

(BTW, my limited education in the sound field would guess somewhere around 110-115 db. )
 
WTC 7 --> 2.5 Sec Free Fall Acceleration = 10 Floors WITHOUT Any Support All Around!

How did 10 floors just lose all structural integrity to the point where they didn't even bend, or the building didn't topple to one side??

Explain that!!

:(
 
I think there are a dozen or so threads that do just that already. Why don't you find one and read up?
 
How did 10 floors just lose all structural integrity to the point where they didn't even bend, or the building didn't topple to one side??

Explain that!!

:(
The building was severely damaged by fires so that a cascading failure occurred.

There are many possible mechanisms - the detail not readily available because they were hidden inside the building.

Why should I or any other person here need to "Explain that!!"? If you have a problem to discuss then state the problem and someone may respond.
 
Could something that produced a sound that measured 140 db. in Central Park, be covered up by something creating 110 db. in Central Park?
Very unlikely, though interference could cause havoc.

How about ones you would find on camcorders that general civilians not in the news broadcasting field, would have purchased from any electronics retailer like Best Buy or Circuit City, circa 2001?
Tend to be directional with limited frequency range, especially low frequency, suffer from very poor overload behaviour masking loud sources, etc...again, run the sim. You seem to be under the misaprehension that I'm trying to say that booms wouldn't be picked up. Must I refer you back to the thread where folk made the same mistake ?

How about one simple cutter charge?
How about it ? What would be picked up by a mic at the base of the tower, in dB (see numerous previous scenario for more detail)

But wait, didn't you claim that cameras that production people use (Newscrews) filter out those kinds of sounds?
Not specifically, no.

(BTW, my limited education in the sound field would guess somewhere around 110-115 db. )
When a hi-hat can reach 127dB ? Cor, a little cymbal *louder* than a building crashing to the ground. Impressive.
 
How did 10 floors just lose all structural integrity to the point where they didn't even bend, or the building didn't topple to one side??

Explain that!!

:(

I must say, I'm surprised it took the twoof this long to re-erupt over this.
Jesse 'the moron' Ventura* was babbling about this, on GMA today.



*Odd that spell check flags the word Ventura.
 
I must say, I'm surprised it took the twoof this long to re-erupt over this.
Jesse 'the moron' Ventura* was babbling about this, on GMA today.
He said "10 floors", eh??

If there's two things that I've learned from JREF, it's:

1) Free Fall Acceleration, Not Speed!
2) 2.5 sec Free Fall Acceleration to be exact.

The thing is that most people here don't know how to convert 2.5 sec free fall acceleration to distance.

2.5 sec seems like an insignificant number until you realize how acceleration works.
 
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I think there are a dozen or so threads that do just that already. Why don't you find one and read up?

The building was severely damaged by fires so that a cascading failure occurred.

There are many possible mechanisms - the detail not readily available because they were hidden inside the building.

Why should I or any other person here need to "Explain that!!"? If you have a problem to discuss then state the problem and someone may respond.
If neither of you can explain what happened, then obviously you DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and I'll wait for someone else to relay the memo.

NIST report says that fires didn't cause TEN FLOORS to just vanish.
NIST report says that that the part of WTC 1 that fell on it didn't cuase TEN FLOORS to just vanish.

What "theories" am I missing?
 
If neither of you can explain what happened, then obviously you DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and I'll wait for someone else to relay the memo.

NIST report says that fires didn't cause TEN FLOORS to just vanish.
NIST report says that that the part of WTC 1 that fell on it didn't cuase TEN FLOORS to just vanish.

What "theories" am I missing?
What is your point?
The collapse of the building took over 15 seconds, time it! Do you know how long it takes an object to fall in a vacuum as high as the WTC 7 is.

15 seconds is a lot longer than a collapse at g.

The facade was timed and part of the time it accelerated close to g, but that confirms the interior structure was gone, already collapsed many seconds before the facade started to move in the fires place.

9 years and 911 truth is in reruns to infinity!
 
The total collapse took more than sixteen seconds.

If 2.25 seconds occurred at free fall speed, then the remaining 13.75+ seconds took place at a rate well below that of free fall velocity.

Whatever you think the 2.25 second free fall shows is conclusively dis-proven by the remainder of the collapse.
 
When a hi-hat can reach 127dB ? Cor, a little cymbal *louder* than a building crashing to the ground. Impressive.

Where is that recoding taking place? In a clean room? Your room? How far away is that? Are we talking SPLs?

(See, I can be cute too.)
 
If you're wondering about noise you should be in a tizzy about where the energy came from to completely demolish about 260 floors of steel and cement into rubble.
E=mgh

You know the physics class you failed to take in High School? It would of given you the tools to understand where the energy came from. 911 truth, free of evidence, has no truth (irony), and can't do physics. Anything you want to add to that list?

I am in a tizzy, oh my
 
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The facade was timed and part of the time it accelerated close to g
Exceeded g Beachnut.

but that confirms the interior structure was gone
No, it doesn't. Indeed the ability for portions of the facade to exceed g implies a still pretty firmly attached *interior structure*

already collapsed many seconds before the facade started to move in the fires place
Nonsense.

9 years and 911 truth is in reruns to infinity!
You're not doing so well yourself Beachnut.
 
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By all means get him to voice his opinion in detail, rather than an utterly pointless second-hand giggle.

Why bother? You would just handwave it away,like you do with every fact that undermines your crazy position.
 
HA HA HA. (That's me having a good laugh).

Where does the energy come from again ?

Don't you think it results from the fact that a load of cranes elevated the mass to create the potential ?

Don't you think the energy to drive the cranes came from somewhere ?

etc.

Read a physics textboox ? :) Funny.

I vote for...the Sun :)

ETA: To stop the inevitable long-winded drone...Gravity is a force (as far as needs explaining here. Potential field.). Have a think about that dafydd.

If you want to know where the energy came from,read a physics book. Where did you study physics and what are your qualifications?
 
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