Bigfoot, an evolutionary argument for it's non-existence.

Gawdzilla said:
We can find fossils from 1/2 billion years ago. Only difference is those were real animals, not figmentasauruses.
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... and there is no evidence of any Gigantopithecus-like fossils on either of the American continents. The persistence of pro-footers using it as a potential ancestor is as farcical as most of the rest of their "science".
 
William Parcher said:
I think that thread may be "Reasons why Bigfoot can't exist in America".
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That's the one.

The problem is in looking for some way that Bigfoot could not exist physically. Bigfoot believers can rationalize the most dizzying array of nonsense. If the sub-culture can blow your mind and turn 4x4 quadrupedal Bigfoots into the norm, things like Bigfoot's evolutionary history are nothing.

Drew, you have the right intentions, but your mode of thinking often seems to be looking for a cureall for Bigfoot belief, such as with the sleep paralysis thing. The thing is, for every Vortigern or myself, you have about 50 or so Creekfreaks, SweatyYeti, etc who are teflon to rational thinking. Rational arguments only work on rational people.

I used to be much more interested in general arguments regarding Bigfoot. I'm now only interested in them when someone like Vort is the person you're having the discussion with. Otherwise, the only thing I'm really interested in is specific claims, and within that pretty much only the most important ones. That is why I hardly ever post outside the PGF section on the BFF. People can enjoy their discussions about Bigfoot's sixth sense or flying ameoba or pterodactyls, it's little and less to me.

Give me something I can sink my teeth into that can be resolved one way or the other. Deal with the big stuff, go for the jugular, and remember, you can kill a claim, but you can't kill Bigfoot belief. Even the claims you kill will sure as rain rise from their grave and come back again and again. People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what kind of mental acrobatics they have to do to keep that belief.

Example - check out this post by RayG in the Blue Creek Mountain hoax thread...

RayG @ BFF said:
I've rotated the photo so we get the proper perspective. What's with the distinct, undisturbed, and very straight ridge right where the base of the toes meet the ball of the foot?

15inchtrack.jpg


RayG
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http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/3188-blue-creek-mountain-road-was-it-a-hoax/page__st__390

I look at that and all I can think about is how is it even possible that anyone seriously thinks that's anything other than folk art at the best? To quote you, my reaction is...

Drewbot said:
cGsyn.gif
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And yet many people are unphased by that and continue to think that is legitimately from a real Bigfoot. Even further, you can show people these and ask how they can all be from Bigfoot creatures...

bigmeld.jpg


Bigwallace31.jpg


Duh! That is simply substrate variation coupled with regional adaptions. When things like that are getting that A-OK, trying to swing one's purse at Bigfoot belief with an evolutionary hypothetical argument is doomed to failure AFAIK.
 
William Parcher said:
Bigfooters in the East and Midwest have presented the same kinds of secondary evidences that have come from the West and PNW. Maybe the only major difference is the promotion of the PGF (from Northern California) as the most famous evidence of all.

Many Bigfooters from all parts are now hanging their hats on the optimism that Bigfoot DNA is soon to be confirmed... from Kentucky!
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And from a source who touts Ray Wallace as an "Original Bigfoot Legend"...

http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/Raywallace.html
 
EHocking said:
... and there is no evidence of any Gigantopithecus-like fossils on either of the American continents. The persistence of pro-footers using it as a potential ancestor is as farcical as most of the rest of their "science".
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Yes, but they'd just respond that the fossil record of Giganto is scanty to begin with, thus the lack of recent fossil record in North America or Siberia isn't as big and obstacle as you think. Plus, Giganto fossils come precisely from areas supporting various bigfoot relatives in Asian "wild men," yetis, etc. Finally, they'd counter with the "we already have their teeth misidentified as those of humans."

As Kaze characterized: "teflon."
 
While the OP may perhaps be a little flawed 'technically', couldn't his argument be sound in the logic of 'absence of evidence IS evidence of absence'? People jumping up and down daily 'claiming' actual Bigfoot encounters doesn't necessarily translate into some instant 'cosmic need' for there to then be a fossil record of such...does it? I mean, isn't the 'reality' that there is no Bigfoot fossil record whatsoever in the US (or anywhere) enough 'reasonable evidence' it didn't exist 'back when' precisely because 'honest people' are swearing on the Bible it exists now?

Staying on the 'evolutionary theory', isn't another angle the notion that if Bigfoot really was as 'smart & clever' (and camera savvy) as it's purported to be by the Fanatical Footers™, and considering it would have had to come from some kind of evolutionary past at least partly like ours if not ours, why didn't it ultimately 'clever itself' out of the cold, exhaustive, austere existence it seemingly has? It has human-like intelligence and self awareness, yet not enough sense to make even the simplest of shelters or maybe even just a broad rimmed 'rainy day hat' made of tree bark? Evolution isn't a conscious choice right?

Anyway, the real question is, considering there's pretty much a consensus here at the JREF that no 'good argument' against Bigfoot's existence would go unpunished (amongst Fanatical Footers™), who really are 'we' trying to convince? ;)
 
Short answer: Absence is absence. If you find evidence, let us know. Please don't bring us any more fake foot prints or ice chests full of monkey suits and deer guts or clumps of bear hair. You'll just look like a fool. Again.
 
The Shrike said:
Yes, but they'd just respond that the fossil record of Giganto is scanty to begin with, thus the lack of recent fossil record in North America
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Ah. The preponderence of religious belief (i.e. anti-evolution creationists) of pro-footers alluded to in a number of threads would explain that approach.
or Siberia isn't as big and obstacle as you think.
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yeah, I guess even presenting numerous migration patterns of other organisms based on the fossil record would still not convince them.
Plus, Giganto fossils come precisely from areas supporting various bigfoot relatives in Asian "wild men," yetis, etc.
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... and there is folklore about such right across the world, even where Giganto fossils have not been found.
Finally, they'd counter with the "we already have their teeth misidentified as those of humans."
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As well as, "we already have a gorilla suit in a freezer misidentified as a bigfoot.".
As Kaze characterized: "teflon."
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Teflon Thinking[tm] - where rational thought just won't stick.
 
And what's with that foot? I mean, what is up with that?

It says, "Look at me, I'm shaped like a biped foot, but I have have a mid-tarsal break like a gorilla, and an underdeveloped achilles tendon"

I mean can someone please help me out with that?
 
The Shrike said:
Like this:

"Well your wrong because I seen one!

"You scientists think you know everything but you don't. Scientists thought that the world was flat until they were proven was proved wrong."
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Sorry, but this has been bothering me so I just had to tweak it a bit to make it a little more realistic.
 
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